Note: I'm asking this question here because it relates directly to cabling.

As you are all well aware, most customers these days are asking for Cat 6 or 6a for their data cabling. The question is, does anyone actually use 10 gigabit ethernet, and if so, for what? By use, I mean actually move data around at that bit rate - just installing 10 gig switches and cards is one thing, but where do the bits actually come from? I have never seen a file server that could serve up data at 10 gigabits per second.

In my opinion, the only users for 10 gigabit per second are:

Telcos and ISP's in the CO and Data Center environment - almost always fiber

Military high-speed data acquisition - hardly a typical end user

Medical imaging equipment like MRI's - almost always fiber

High-End scientific users like CERN - all proprietary networks

So why on earth does the average small-to-medium business need 10 gigabits per second? Will they need it in the future?

I realize that this horse has been flogged pretty hard already, but I'm bringing it up again because now it seems like everyone wants Cat 6/6a.

Jim
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Speaking from a secure undisclosed location.

Not around here Jim. In fact I've only installed 1 Cat 6 drop as it was INSISTED upon by the CG involved. Did they need it it? NO!

I had even explained to the CG AND client that it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever as the rest of the network was Cat 5 or 5e. Did they listen? NO.

Did it make any difference? Again NO.

Like you stated, I have yet to find a client that needs to move that much data OR had the equipment to handle it.

I believe 10GB cable installed today is for the future. In my case, my day job company is building a new building. We're going to install two 6a and two 5e at each drop. It might be overkill, but at least we're covered for the time when 10GB does become usable.

Adding a drop here or there doesn't make sense to use cat 6, for the reasons you mentioned, but wiring a whole building without considering the future would be foolish, imho.

Jim

How many times have you installed Cat 6 (end-to-end) and then discover the customer uses cat 5e at the desktop... :shrug:

While I hear what you're saying, I don't believe there is such a thing as "future proof". Next year or next month the IT world could change what they say is needed. How long have they been pushing CAT6? As has been stated except for a very few cases it's over kill and expensive. There's a very good possibility that when the day comes that the customer would need the higher standard, those standards would have changed and you'd rip out the CAT6 and replace it with whatever the current standard would be. May as well rip out CAT5 and save the customer some bucks.

Looking at it from a Telco installer's perspective, I don't think CAT6 is going to be considered overkill for much longer. Carrier Ethernet, which will soon be offered at 100gig, is way more affordable when broken down into bits per dollar compared to your standard TDM circuits like T1. If the customer's WAN is capable of 10gig they will want their LAN to match that. I could be all wrong, but I have seen the explosion of these services over the past year and just installed my first 10gig circuit for a medium sized school district yesterday and have installed 1gig circuits for customers who have gotten by with a T1 for a long time.

"wiring a whole building without considering the future would be foolish, imho."

I agree. For that reason, we push for conduit whenever we can.

All of my customers (hospitality) ask about cat6 and sometimes 6a. 95% of their data needs are internet to guests, and I can say that 0% of them come close to maxing out cat5e, let alone cat6. That said, we haven't installed a cat5e data network in a few years. :shrug:

Half the specs I get now call for cat6 for voice. grr... :bang:

Jack

That would be as close to future proof as you could get, anything else is just a shot in the dark. Now if you could just get the customer to spring for it.

I don't believe that there is a single switch or NIC card in existance that is capable of more than 1 gig. And you can get 1 gig out of cat5e.

I don't really believe that any one will make such a thing as I think it will go to fiber before that.


Cat6 will be used for the new HDbaseT instead.

WHAT BILL SAID.

future proofing

I sell this method of future proofing to my high-end residential customers. Email me privately for the number$ involved.

It can be a very profitable add-on in a house with 20- to 30-something locations.

CAT6, Cat5e, Fiber to the Desktop...it's all a bunch of misconceptions (and a way to sell more wire). You are only as fast as your server runs its aps and since we are in a Windows world...

The only place I see 10G used in 'small business' is in three areas, and most of them tend not to be Windows centric. Digital Video production,
pre-press/advertising/publishing, and NAS (usually it is a solution like freeNAS). The only windows centric client I know of running 10G is a medical office running it to their Digital X-Ray machine. That is in a busy 6 Dentist Office. 10G is only used between 3 devices, the image storage, the Disk to Disk to Tape backup and X-Ray. They are not my client, but they are my dentist.

Its all about looking at where your bottlenecks are and targeting seeing what you can do to widen them. Going 10G isn't the answer to every problem though.

What still amuses me is home and business users installing or better yet upgrading to Mimo-N wireless AP's so they can connect to their 5-10mbit net connections though routers that have huge latency. Not only that they are left on the default channel where the interference is greatest, and have the antennas orientated completely wrong.

The only place we will have 10-gig in the next ten years is the backbone between our (my employer's) buildings which is fiber, of course. I see very little need for 10-gig-capable copper cabling.

-Nelson

They have been installing Cat 6A at my school for some time now. The switches are still 10/100...lol

I've used this and I REALLY like it...Yes, it adds considerable cost to the project, but it makes life so much easier...

There are plenty of copper 10G NICs and Switches available for sale and have been for several years now. We install predominantly Cat6 but there’s still plenty of Cat5e going in too. Cat6a is just now starting to pickup and its being asked for a lot in specs. I’m not sure why you guys even argue about Cat5e and Cat6. The difference in cost is minute. So what’s the big deal?? Now comes Cat6a and yes it’s a lot higher to install and there’s new considerations but price will come down on it just like Cat5 was high when it came out. So a spec requests Cat6a, so what?? Bid it, hope you win the job, and go to work. Every time this is brought up its always the same. Who needs it! Its too expensive! No ones going to use it! Do you guys really argue with a customer who wants a Cat6 run because Cat5e is 5 dollars cheaper?? There really isn’t a cost argument between Cat5e and Cat6 anymore. :shrug:

In my area most customers demanding CAT6 are schools and municipal customers. I can only assume it's because they have money to waste (our money that is).

"they have money to waste (our money that is)."
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That's because most government entities set 'next year's budget' based on this year's and "everybody knows" you're gonna need more money. In order to avoid a cut in budget because they didn't spend it all, THEY SPEND IT ALL, no matter what! That's what 'zero-based budgeting' is supposed to fix.

Ditto Ditto Ditto.................did I say Ditto?

"Do you guys really argue with a customer who wants a Cat6 run because Cat5e is 5 dollars cheaper??"

No, but I do try my best to not get customers to use cat6 for voice just because it's on a spec sheet, the same spec sheet that often says "cat3 100pr from IDF to MDF".

"There really isn’t a cost argument between Cat5e and Cat6 anymore. "

takes considerably more time for me to terminate, and when there are hundreds of long runs of POTS, cat6 adds up. Last time I checked, a cat6 110 block costs about 10x what a cat5e does. Keystones (quality ones) are 2x as much, and good patch panels in cat6 are a lot more than cat5e. I can pipe a building in ENT and install cat5e for not much more than what nice cat6 everything costs.

Jack

To work against a customer's preconceived or ill-conceived notion is usually not the right path to take if you want to make sales.

It is like Big Pharm . Joe feels a little down and he reads a magazine ad or sees a TV commercial that tells him Prozac is the answer. He goes to a doctor (you, in this scenario) and before the doctor can tell him he really just needs to eat better and exercise, Joe demands Prozac.

The fact that the doctor is an expert and actually has a personal face-to-face with Joe means nothing. The TV ad promised everything.

The doctor's expert, healthy advice is disregarded because Joe has his mind made up before he went to the doctor.

The doctor won't prescribe Prozac because he sees it as entirely too expensive and unnecessary. So Joe goes off to a doctor that will give it to him at a premium price and not care about Joe's best interest. The doctor gets to charge Joe a whopping visit fee and the big margin on the drugs.

That is the same scenario most of you will face. You want to be the caring expert, but your reward will be the door hitting your butt on the way out the door.

We bid a 10-gig job that one of customer's wanted because the CEO read an article in Sky magazine on a flight that said anything less is a huge mistake. His mind was made up, there was no point in trying to educate him.

Two or three other companies really pushed CAT5e and wouldn't even bid a 10G solution. Their bids were not even looked at, ours was, and we made a lot of profit at probably 4x-5x the price of the other bids.

Ask any salesperson - give them what they want or someone else will.

Another frequent example are customers who have voice cable in place but insists on an all-IP phone system because it is 'better.' No use asking him/her why she believes that, TOO LATE.

Hello Everyone
I am new to the chat platform, but thought I would mention what is happening in my locale.
Everything is going cat 6, I just completed 1200 drops and everything on my horizon is for the same spec. Everyone in general wants it certified. I have been using Leviton products and like what I see, especially using the Fluke Rapid Jack for terminating. However I have 2 of these but managed to turn in 2 others for warranty replacement. I have been using a DSP-4300 for certfication but am looking at the newer DTX.
I have 31 years experience in the Telco business but took a early retirement package.
Lately I probably logged more miles on a step ladder alone than most people do walking.
But enough already, have enjoyed your chit chat, but only had the time as of today to sign up.
Have fun and keep your stick on the ice.
WortepLime