atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems Partner ACS and Comcast lines

Hi,
We have a Avaya Partner ACS system that is only a couple of years old. Ever since we've moved from old AT&T pots lines over to Comcast digital lines we have not been able to see the incoming caller ID. A call to Comcast tech support got us to the "its the PBX system on not our line" answer. When I do plug in a regular single line phone to the Comcast line I do get the caller ID. This is the reason they give us the excuse. The fact that caller ID shows on a regular phone "it must be the phone system." It's a blame game I assume. Let me know if anything can be done to the ACS before I call Comcast to cancel their phone service. I'm regretting moving over to them.

calls being answered by AA or phone ?

I would try letting it ring without AA picking up or phone answering to start , then look at all the CID programing

Ive got at least one Comcast /ACS customer where CID works just fine

What release ACS?
You can do a feature 59 from any display phone and it will show the release.

But yeah, like skip said above, there isn't any programing in the ACS to stop CID other than a AA picking up the lines before the CID has a chance to make it to the ACS (in most places 1 ring, but have ran into a few areas that need two)

We've seen situations where the cable modem gateway didn't produce CID to Bellcore standards and PACS didn't display the CID properly. If worked for years with LEC, customer switched to Comcast, now it doesn't work and it's our fault! And there is not much you can do to fix it.
Mike

if it works on a SLT then I would think it ought to work on the ACS

Comcast is big around here and I haven't had any problems with CID at all, as Skip said if it works on a single line instrument it should work on the ACS.

Thank you for all of your insight. I suppose if it works for one side of the country it doesn't mean it will work for the other side. The Comcast rep mentioned to me that their phone line is an ETA?? thingamajiggy. Tech jargon to me. And that their digital line is not like a VOIP line. When I add a VOIP (Net2phone) line to the phone system is caller ID does shows up. Agan this leads me to believe the issue is with Comcast lines. Comcast tells me their is nothing they can do on their end to solve my issue.
I had the staff called Comcast again today and lo and behold the problem got resolved. Comcast mentioned that something needed to be turned on. So yet again the issue is on Comcast's end.
Thank you again for all of your input.

How many lines do you have? Is your issue with a line that is outside the ACS? say on a 206 module that doesn't have the caller ID feature? Have you checked the line polarity too? Just a thought.

LOL! Yeah Comcast just needed to turn on CID for those lines on their end...........

Glad you got it resolved. :thumb:

Yeah Comcast just needed to turn on CID for those lines on their end.

No, I don't think so. Why would it work with a single line phone if it was not enabled? I have run into this same problem with a Partner system not displaying CID when supplied by a cable modem. Unfortunately it never went anywhere because the customer didn't want to persue it. I would have had the cable company swap out the modem then I would swap out the processor to see what happens. But now you have me courious-

...the problem got resolved. Comcast mentioned that something needed to be turned on.

WHAT NEEDED TO BE TURNED ON??????????

You couldn't be bothered to call them back to find out so you wouldn't have to go through this BS the next time? :sleep:

-Hal

did it work on a SLT in your case but not on the ACS Hal ?

We recently had a similar Comcast headache on a different product. Same problem, same blame. SLT good, KSU bad. When replacing the KSU failed to restore CID, my tech had Comcast check something and service was restored. I will try to find what that item was.

Yes Skip, it did.

-Hal

Comcast is a BROADBAND CABLE COMPANY that decided to get into the phone biz. And like so many other CLECs, they've not done their homework.

Home phones are a lousy way to determine the worthiness of a line as they seem to tolerate all kinds of sloppiness...squarewave rings, blah blah.

Comcast has a protocol called XMPP. I understand that their cable TV customers can get Caller ID screen pops while they're watching the tube. But let's be honest, that's not Bellcore FSK. So while it may work on a Trimline, it's not exactly a surprise that the PACS may not like it.

NOT the fault of the Partner ACS. Period.

Allow me to quote a similar tale that I heard from Touchtone Tommy:

"A call would ring in, CID would show on the display, they would pick up the handset, the ringing on the phone would stop, the line turns green, but no one would be there. Put the handset back in the cradle, and the line would start ringing again, but this time NO CID. Lift the handset and the caller would be there. The entire time the caller was hearing ringback.

Did the standard troubleshooting, swap the lines from CO1 to CO2, see if the problem follows, happened mostly first thing in the morning for the customer, but I could never duplicate it.

We put a single line phone on the CO side ahead of the Partner, and asked them to answer on that when they answered on the Partner and no one was there. Wierd thing was that while the 2500 was connected, that line never experienced the problem!! It was on CO1, it was fine but they had the problem on CO2. Moved the 2500 to CO2, and the problem came back to CO1."

He concluded that the CO was providing the incorrect impedance which, by the way, plays a role in proper FSK signaling. Booyah.

I understand that their cable TV customers can get Caller ID screen pops while they're watching the tube. But let's be honest, that's not Bellcore FSK. So while it may work on a Trimline, it's not exactly a surprise that the PACS may not like it.

I don't think what they send to the set top boxes for CID screen pops has anything to do with the CID FSK that is supposed to come out of the EMTA (cable voice modem).

-Hal

All that we did to fix our problem was to follow tech support's advice (in this case, Vertical).
We asked Comcast to reset their Caller ID signal. Then the CID passed thru the KSU again.
It's all magic isn't it?

More like voodoo.

-Hal

But it proved it was Comcast, not the equipment. Would it be too much to hope for for Comcast to hire someone with some telecom experience and savvy? I've been fighting with them for 3 months on another simple issue and finally had to tell the customer that I am giving up.

We all knew it was Comcast. Problem was getting them to understand it. I just discovered a problem with Cablevision "business class phone service" today. If somebody calls other than the lead or first line in a hunt group and that line is busy it will not hunt to the next, caller gets a busy. Customer service says that's the way it works. I explain that it's common for customers to just hit last number redial to return a call and I can't always use line one to call out. His solution was to use CID blocking on all lines except #1. Also, if I had a phone system it will take care of the problem. :scratch:

So you see what we are dealing with.

I'm pretty sure thats how hunt works with Verizon around here Hal , if you call the Main (pilot number ) and its busy it hunts through the group . if you call any of the lines direct and its busy then it doesn't hunt but rather returns a busy .

when its a issue like you mentioned we try to get the carrier to use the pilot number for outgoing CID

It's all in the switch programming. With Verizon here I can check the hunting by just going down the line dialing each number itself and seeing if the next one rings.

Also with cable telephone I don't think you can split a group of lines into two or more hunt groups. For example a customer may have four voice lines and two fax lines. If he wants the fax lines to hunt he's out of luck.

These are all things that are taken for granted with real phone companies but unfortunately cable companies have little telecom expertise so details like this go over their heads. Their switch is probably capable of handling these options if they only knew to (and how to) change it from the default settings.

-Hal

I realize its switch programing but it dosen't work that way last time I checked here with the "real phone companies " like I said pilot hunts , members return busy ...I'll give it a try tomorrow , if they have changed it its a fairly recent change

if I need to determine hunt order I busy one and see where it goes ...busy one and two and see where it goes ...busy one two and three and see it where it goes etc etc

Always been that way here as far back as I've been in the business Skip.

-Hal

that's interesting Hal, it must be the switch's I was thinking about it when I was walking the dog and honestly its been awhile since I tried It but I remember getting complaints about for the reason you mentioned and Verizon telling me it couldn't be done ...I'll check it out tomorrow

Pacific Bell (now at&t) it works that way, go off hook on any line in the hunt group, and dial its own number, it will hunt to the next line in the group.

GTE (now VeriZon), only calls directed to the pilot will hunt. Calls directed to any other line in the group will ring if idle, but NOT hunt if busy.

(I'm in an at&t area, but VeriZon territory starts 30 miles south of us)

Our most popular CLEC does it that way as well, they say it's easier from a programming standpoint.

So clip onto line 1, call it, see if it hunts to line 2. Hang up, take a pair of nested bridge clips and stick them between line 2's bridge clips, to busy it out, and go back to line 1 and call it again. Line 3 rings, lather, rinse, repeat

For the past 30+ years I never saw hunting work with that sorry limitation. Never too late to learn something new I guess.

I tested it on a Verizon customer today , 8 lines in rotary . grabbed line 3 , ANI Then ,went off hook and dialed it direct

BUSY
no hunt .

I'm in Verizon Territory but to the south and to the east is century Link . I'll give it a try next time I'm working there

I am curios so I'll start testing it with CLECS too

Can Verizon provide a circular hunt? That might be a good work-around for this changing topic. Otherwise, CID will need the same outgoing # on every line as previously mentioned.

I just looked at Cablevision's hunting and there is a circular option. They describe it as:

Circular: This option varies the starting point for the hunt group and allows for an even distribution of calls within the group. Calls will be routed to the first idle line starting with the line directly after the line of which the last call was completed. The hunt will then follow the sequence as indicated in the Hunt Sequence.

What the hell does "calls will be routed to the first idle line starting with the line directly after the line of which the last call was completed" mean? Sounds more like ACD to me.

-Hal

Sure sounds like ACD to me too. Perhaps Cablevision can't offer circular hunting and puts a spin on what they can do. My understanding of circular is hunting to the next line when the called line is busy and if the last line is called, it then moves to line one, etc.

PS. I wish there was someone somewhere who was a final authority on the descriptions of terms and service features. It seems like every manufacturer and TelCo makes up their own definition. Do we have deregulation to thank for this?

Actually, if you think about the way their circular hunting works and then the forward/no answer feature that forwards an inbound call to the next line after the 5th ring, ACD really starts to make sense. It's like they intended their service to be used with a bunch of single line phones, each on it's own CO line. Each line can also have it's own VM.

Thing is nobody does that, every business has at least some kind of key system or PBX, or at least multi-line phones. So those features are pretty useless.

Perhaps Cablevision can't offer circular hunting and puts a spin on what they can do.

I don't think that's the case at all. I don't know what switch they are using (Cisco?) but I'll almost guarantee you that it can be programmed to provide any common feature. Problem is the people in charge have no clue so they offer what makes sense in their minds.

-Hal

That is exactly what circular hunting is... incoming calls start with the next line/extension after the line on which the last call was completed... the term "idle" in the description simply means it would go to the next line if the one immediately after the line used for the last call was busy.

ACD goes to the longest idle "agent" .... so the calls could go to any of the lines in the group regardless of which line was used for the last call ... it would just depend on which one had been idle the longest.

Regardless of the terminology the way they are handling the calls is ridiculous... and i agree their switch has the capability to hunt "normally" ... they just don't have people on staff who know how to program it!

I found another phone system that is not compatible with Comcast caller ID! Bizfon. Yes well that's not a real phone system, hahaha. Yes Comcast's XMPP explanation to me doesn't jive. The Comcast rep was pretty certain that he knew the technology better than any veteran phone installer. Ha that's a joke.
I don't know much but I do know not question what has always worked in the past. Then a new guy comes into town with a new technology and expects everyone to dance the same tune.

I ran into a similar problem years ago on a OnyxVS
CID was a expensive add on and I couldn't get it to work , worked fine on a CID box or SLT back and forth and finally Nitsuko agreed they had designed it too close to the spec and it didn't allow for minor variations .

if the signal works with a Meg-lo-mart CID box or SLT and not on the phone switch I have to say its something the manufacturers should be addressing

Comcast provides 48 ma to the household on a loop current that is very hot.


COMCAST needs to provide 23ma AS an AVERAGE FOR KSU. KEY SERVICE UNITS.


ALL WHAT IS NEEDED-- A COMCAST MODEM IS HOT AND CAN CAUSE PROBLEMS WITH ELECTRONIC KEY SYSTEMS.

I had a big fight with Comcast.

I won and they fixed it.

Customer complained to me and Comcast.

EVERYTHING WAS FINE UNTIL THEY SWITCHED TO COMCAST.

FINALLY THEY HAD THE RIGHT GUY.

WE CAN SWITCH the loop to 23MA.

I said please do it.

The problem went away.

Miss conceptions.

Verizon can do call call forward busy on a residential line. Comcast can't unless you dial a code on each and every call.

I believe 48 ma is within the specs , they can go up as high as 120MA

I would have slapped a regulator on it , and been done .

Its nice they fixed it but what happens when the current goes back up next week ?

There are two setting programed two the Box by Comcast.

Default is 48 and 23 is just fine.

The CC box on the wall is the CO.

Go to Mike Sandman and read about High loop current issues.

We had a similar experience, but with an ACS and AT&T. The customer didnt change lines or anything and all of a sudden CID stopped coming in. They called AT&T the tech came out and showed them it worked on a CID box. I came out and said I hear the tones but it should display. So I happened to have an IPO 500 that was going to be installed at another customer, I plugged it into a line and watched System Status and the call came in with a + in front of the number. I told them AT&T changed how the number came in. They called AT&T and told them, the tech then came out again and showed them how a brand new CID box worked. So I went out and bought an analog AT&T CID capable phone from Best Buy and tried it, and it didnt work lol. I left the phone there for the tech and a few days later the customer called and said the tech came back used that AT&T phone and it didnt work then after an hour or so it started working again.

This has nothing to do with Caller ID but if it's on copper then we need a second look.

I Assume it's copper. Anything else it's too far or hot.

I use the term to far as in the total distance in relation to a DC signal and imposed AC type modem signal or cross talk or analog signal loss. The imposed ac cross talk loss on a dc signal can attribute to a amplification or imbalance of pairs.

If the pairs are clean we can amplify a carrier frequency across the network that works like a T-1 or slick today for a very far distance with no problems unless the pairs are half tapped creating an unbalance in the signal.

Years ago they had dedicated pairs from NY to boston, Boston to Detroit, and Alaska ect.

Talk about a home run on cat5. They did it back then without fiber.






It's called hot or cold loop ma. Current or Milli amps on a close or far end loop.

This happens on T-1s or any provider that installs a box infront of a KSU.

The point is: Too far or way to close.

Hi Hal,

The work around on the Cablevision thing is to setup in the online settings to forward busy to the main number on all the hunt lines. I no it is strange but the only way to get it to work. With Cablevision taking over so many accounts we have to deal with it. Kind of like fighting city hall.

Jim

The work around on the Cablevision thing is to setup in the online settings to forward busy to the main number on all the hunt lines.

I hear you but where I am I don't see that option. There's a problem too, there doesn't seem to be any consistancy from one region to the next with how they program their switches. Like with Centrex transfer- somebody says Cablevision provides it where they are, here it's 3-way calling.

-Hal