atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems External Loud Ringer

I am helping a buddy out who owns a large Body Shop, In his three buildings he has External Loud Ringers (Wheelock), I guess all three of the ringers just died. So I got new ones for him. They are the same type and model as the originals. They have modular jacks on them so you just plug them in and you are good. New ones are installed, but no ring ring. I plugged a normal non system phone in, got tone and was able to call out. Nothing has been changed or touched on the 66 block. I traced the line to the 66 and there is just the T&R lines there, like it should be. Anyone have any ideas?

Also the originals where not just installed they have been there for years and have always worked, till he said about a month or so ago

Check your ring voltage.

Question about the voltage. What would cause it all of a sudden to drop like that. This is what I am trying to wrap my head around. I plugged it into the his fax line which is coming off of the same 66 and the bell and phones worked just fine. I would like to try and figure it out, before I have him call someone. I know what my limits are, and so far I am not there yet, but this can't be a big problem.

Can you ring your non-system phone that you dialed out on? also there are some alerts have dip switches that can be set for different voltages for T/R or 48VDC.

No I wasn't able to ring on the non-system phone. I have one of the Ringers in front of me, and there are no dips. Also looking at the Specs of the ringer, it showing me Voltage Range = 55 130VAC, so thats a large range. Also this is on a Partner 206 so it should be giving me 70+. Am I correct?

Here is the Bell that is being used.

https://www.twacomm.com/catalog/model_TB-593.htm?sid=1A6B9EAD5BF5A97B99383C92C8AE8D74

plug the ringer directly into a CO line and try it

Well lets step back a minute djboston before we get carried away.

Are these ringers on an extension port of a phone system or just hooked up to POTS lines?
And what make and model are the ringers. Some of larger ringers have a separate power supply and then others power off of the phone line or ext port.

If they are plugged into a partner port I would try to find out what extension(s)they are connected to and then dial from an intercom button to that ext number(s). If the bell rings when you dial the extension, then check to make sure that the lines are set to ring on that/those extension(s)

I plugged the ringer directly into the expansion slot, using a known working port, but no luck. As for the setup, this is how they have it, mind you, this was setup by the phone company years ago, and this is not my doing. At one location there is some old , old 66 blocks, with it looks like maybe 2 or 3 working line on it, and this is where the one bell is located at. Tone Tracing the line up to where the Expansion slots are and newer 66 and power are located. this line goes to one of the 66 and then from it's plugged into the partner. So make it easier. Partner to 66, 66 to another 66, to a surface mount, to the bell.

According to the owner, no one has messed with the partner, and actually no one knows how to, and for the last couple of years they have had no problem with them. Now I will tell you that each bell has it's own port (extension), so why would all of them go down (three of them), in 3 different and seperate buildings?

WOOF, 3 of those Telabells have an R.E. of 4.8! (3 X 1.6=4.8) That is a LOT for a Partner 206 port! Heck, that's a lot for a C.O. line. Isn't C.O. max quoted @ 5.0? Surely there is a relay and ringer supply in there someplace! dj you are missing something here! Look around the system for a Elgin/Wheelock or some other brand of 20-30 htz power supply rated at 90-120 Volts. And some sort of relay.
OR, are each of these bells on a seperate extension? If so, are the on the same 206 card, which may have lost it's ringing supply, partially or completely.

I'm afraid I've made this to complicated? John C. (Not Garand)

And now I see more info! Like blklabs said, check each port for ability to ring loud bell when calling on intercom. If no ring, are all ports on the same card, if so, probably ring supply in the card.

plug the bell directly into the port and dial the intercom number. If that rings, then your bell and your ringing voltage should be good. At that point I would double check the line ringing programming.
If it doesn't ring but does when connected to the fax line, then you may have to move the bell to another port or replace the 206

Replacing is exactly what I was thinking. What is the normal life span of a 206. According to the owner they have had it for about 15 years. Also each of the bells are on different cards. The are three cards, one for each building, plus a paging card.

dj, suspect that the problem is due to a power loss. 15 years old and probably the original processor. Battery is probably dead. Did they have to reset time recently, or is it way off? The 'paging card' is also the processor, as in the heartbeat of the phone system. Dead memory battery + loss of AC power results in default program. NOT a good thing! John C. (Not Garand)

Did you look around for a contact interface for this bell?
All of the ones I have ever saw hooked to a Partner has one.

If that is truly the bell being used, they actually have a small MOTOR inside of them that drives the clapper. They have never been very good on the Partner system, and they definatly do not work on 308 modules, as their ringing voltage is less than 206 modules.

Please take a bell to the control unit and plug it directly into a station port, then dial that extension from another phone; see if it rings. It not, plug it into a dial tone and dial that telephone number, see if that is enough power to ring it.

Yep, when that bell is used on a Partner it requires a interface.

Sounds like he has the wheelocks from an old merlin or Spirt. Oooh it don't work.. But there is a way...

I have an ACS r3 here and a new tb593 bell
I plugged the bell into x11 and dialed the x11 on intercom and bell rang , same on incoming call bell also rang .
I have a Wheelock-tb-593

Some of the real older wheelocks were made by Clarkson horn. I think it's the name...

In any event you need to trip a 110 with the ringing source. Or whatever voltage the bells power supply works on. The Partner system is not a true generator of 105 and I think it is around 70 on a square voltage cycle. Not true wave form.

Im talking bells that are 30 years old.

AS touch TT said that wheelock version will not work on partner. If it does it will be short lived.

OK. So all in all, What would be the best bell for the Partnet 206? Please keep in mind that it would be nice if it had a Modular Plug, just for ease on the end user, if he needs to replace sometime down the road.

A viking unit Loud ringer. Cheapest and easy.

You can run about seven 8hom horns and it comes with a power supply and line ring interface with volume control.

The question is ... if the customer has existing paging. Night bell over paging. Hello. Even so Valcom, Bogen, viking.. What else?

External alerts and flashing probe lights for the handicapped in the manufacturing environment?

Now that's a problem.

I get the impression that these are individual extensions, 1 to a building. Probably noisy, being a body shop! Probably a Viking unit per building/per extension is what will be required. Are we getting close dj ? John C. (Not Garand)

Thanks to everyone for all their help and input. Much appreciated.

I think you will find as you increase your level of experience in your new career that "being modular" has the opposite effect you desire. When an item is modular, so any primate can move it from location to location, you will eventually get just that exact result.

If distance is a problem, the old tried and true ring generator works well. Dees makes one and so does Viking https://www.vikingelectronics.com/products/pdf/rg-10a.pdf

If there is existing paging, a ring over page solution is available. My favorite is the Bogen NR-100 and an EPS-2401 or any -24v power supply I have lying around.

Carl

I know this is probably a dumb answer - but did you check the 120V AC supply to the horns?

As I recall, the Wheelock units required a separate 120V AC supply.

Kill the power and they'll never work.


Sam

Sam
the tb593 that he is using is line powered , (no external power needed )

It was a dumb answer :-). The TeleBell 593 is line powered.

Carl

not dumb at all Carl . Sam was speaking from memory and many of the wheelock bells do require 120vac

I think I would be working on what would cause three ringers to stop working at the same time. Totally impossible for that to be a coincidence, there has to be a common denominator.

A quick check of the "defective" bells would be to connect one directly to a CO line and call it.

A quick check of the Partner extensions used for these bells is to plug a single line phone onto the port and call a CO line associated with it. That won't tell you much about the ring voltage but it will at least tell you that the ports are still programed correctly and they will ring.

Other than that it's useless for this thread to continue. It used to work and now it doesn't. Obviously something happened that you need to figure out. We can't, we are not there. As far as what bell will work and all that stuff, we are only confusing the matter. What was there USED TO WORK.

You need to sharpen your troubleshooting and diagnostic skills to a level where you are competant or contact a dealer who will handle it for you.

Thanks for the post, it's been fun but I don't see what more can be said.

-Hal

To everyone that posted, thank you. Just to update. Prior to me posting a topic here, I had done almost everything people had suggested. The bells do not work when plugged directly to the Partner. Yes Hal thats why I posted here, to see if anyone had any ideas why ALL the bells would stop working. The fact that ALL the bells were on Different cards, and they all stoped working I had already concluded that there most likly is a problem with the Partners, but just wanted a second opinion. Thanks to everyone.