atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Inter-Tel Telephones & Systems Axxess web interface...

OK, I understand this is a diagnostic usage only. But I want to make sure I understand this right, in order to gain access to this interface, we would need to contact Inter-Tel and have them remotely reset a password for us?

Basically, if this is the only interface they provide for us to access, I would like to be able to view it and ensure things on the phone system are working properly. If there are alarms or errors, is this where we would see exactly what they are, then we could determine the severity of the issue and decide whether it was extreme enough to spend the cash on a "certified" tech?

While I still don't agree with HOW this system functions, it is what it is, and at this point it is better to just get as familiar with whatever tools ARE accessible to me so I can inform my client of if/when we may want to call in the "big guns".

Greg

Sounds like you've gone from someone just moving the system for a client to someone who now wants to work on the system.

If so, take the proper courses and get certified. Otherwise you're simply what our industry calls a "Trunker".

Usernames and passwords are confidential information normally only shared between the manufacturer and the dealer. This kind of information is only discussed in the installer's forum which is private. In order to gain access you would have to apply and be approved. Thanks.

So even diagnostic information is inaccessible to the end user (who owns the hardware)? They don't give any capabilities, other than through the phones, to check the status of the system and know when they should be calling in someone?

And I have always worked on their systems, reprogramming from the handsets and such, basic rewiring to activate/move a phone extension for them (and other clients). Just trying to become as familiar as I guess Inter-Tel will allow so in the future I will know when we need to call someone in. Just wish they gave us more ability to monitor and watch for things (and do a basic system backup) without having to call someone in every single time.

So, if someone really gets under "your industries" skin, do they then become a "mother-trunker"? (-:

Greg

Greg, I gave you the answer to the question. It is the forums policy not to hand out confidential information in public.

You seem to misunderstand something. The entire system is accessible to the customer. It is not uncommon for us to provide them with every tool available to us so that they may take care of routine programming changes.

I'm sorry, guess I read that too fast, wasn't trying to be an @$$. Just didn't read it right. Guess I was still a little on the mindset that some of this is "exclusive to certified tech only" (again just using that to help illustrate how I read it).

I'll head over to the installers forum and hope for the best at being approved.

Thanks for the clarification!

Greg

OK, how does one go about applying? Found the forum but just tells me access is denied. Don't see anyplace to request access.
Greg

Dave, There is no way to take Inter-Tel/Mitel courses or certifications without working for a dealer.
Some dealers may provide administration courses for their customers.
Greg, https://www.sundance-communications.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/1/t/002809/p/2.html

So I would have to request to become a dealer with Inter-Tel? I'm sorry, as far as that companies policies are concerned I am more and more bothered by their exclusivity.
Thanks for the link Jeff!
Greg

One does not just 'request' to become a dealer. It requires a significant investment...you have to sell equipment, have a staff and train them...
Mitel is a large company, and they are far from the only company who has a dealer network. Almost all phone system companies have this...Avaya Business Partners for example.

I do not understand why you are against calling a trained and certified technician who knows the system. Perhaps they would be willing to teach you a few things.

What I am against is the exclusivity of it all. Seems ridiculous that you can't get any information unless you are certified, can't be certified unless you work for a dealer, can't be a dealer unless you invest TONS of money with them in the hopes that someone will need their system. So you have to pick which vendors you would want to sell their products, go through all these steps, be granted access, then realize that company B has a better product so now go through all that all over again for them. They all get their money, while the dealers are left holding the bag. And you can't even TOUGH their equipment unless you've done all this.

And that doesn't get any else's dander up? Guess I know why I am not exclusively in the telecom field.

Greg

I am biased because Inter-Tel is the first system I learned to work on.
It is a quality product and serves a good customer base. They have been around since the early 60s so they must be doing something right.
Now they are part of Mitel which is a larger company with more products to offer.
The majority of their dealers are small to medium sized companies who can afford the investment needed to sell this equipment.
I don't know what else to tell you. Nobody is forcing you to work on it.

Let's exclude me from the picture. Say my client makes some changes to their phone system, renumbers a few extensions, changes which phones ring off which lines, updates employee names, etc. They then need to call in a certified tech (at I would guess a hefty minimum hourly fee, with an hour as a starting point) to backup these new changes. Then next week an employee leaves, so they rename that phone, switch it to not ring, etc. They then need to call in this tech (again at most likely an hour minimum) to do another backup?

You are the 2nd person to mention that things have been this way since the 60's or 70's, and I understand the company needing to protect their product base. However, I would think it would be MORE beneficial to them if more tech's were able to do at least some basic maintenance tasks on them.

As an example, I know of several large software manufacturers that hand out "demo" copies of their software packages that cost tens of thousands of dollars. They do this so that more people are familiar with how their software works, and thus would list that as a capability of theirs. Employers see more people comfortable with that software package, they will start looking into implementing it into their business.

Most end-user/business owners don't want to know how to run a backup or anything else. They also don't want to keep calling in a variety of different "specialists" for every minor task that needs to be performed. Having to keep a list of who to call for what. And then a vendor closes up shop and they are back to square one (which is what happened in this case, system was installed so long ago the old vendor is long gone and nobody at the business can recall the first thing about it.)

I am all for calling in the specialists to handle their specialty. But holding a client captive because no one else could do a thing without this specialist is morally wrong.

For the record, when I set/configure ANYTHING for a client. I supply them with ALL the top level usernames/passwords and any other information they would need should something ever happen to me, or they just become no longer satisfied with my services sometime in the future. I have yet to lose a customer due to that, but I have picked up SEVERAL from other local businesses in my same field because the client felt they were being held hostage and they weren't being given the information they needed to access their equipment. This makes it a headache for me as I then have to go on a discovery of their network infrastructure and try to power my way through all the configurations. This becomes expensive for my client as it is a time consuming process without many results to show for them. And is very cumbersome and tedious for me when I could be getting some real tasks done for them instead of just trying to get back to square one.

And for the record, I've never bashed the quality of Inter-Tel's product, just their (and apparently several other telecom hardware providers) operating practices. I am starting to realize why the movement to systems such as Asterisk are gaining such momentum however.

Unless the client has the programming software they can't make those changes to begin with. If they have that software then they can also do a backup. It's not programmed through the phone like many small systems.

Can they request a copy of that software as a purchaser of the hardware? Whoever installed it should have supplied it but didn't and they are now long gone.

It may be worth a shot to call Mitel and see what they can do.

Greg have you tried Inter Tel Web Site ?

Merritt, the correct site is www.mitel.com
UK stuff probably will just be confusing...

Thanks Jeff I didn't look at it close enough.

Thanks, I've posted a request at Inter-Tel/Mitel. I also requested access to the Installer forum, but I guess since my website doesn't list telecom services I was denied access.

Oh well, just another example to learn from I suppose.

Let me ask you this ....... what difference does it make if the customer is paying an Intertel dealer to work on the phone system instead of you?

You will both be charging him to do that work ... except the dealer will have been trained so he will do things in a fraction of the time it will take you so it may even cost less ..... on top of that the dealer will have a full inventory of parts.

As much as you have trouble with the whole exclusivity thing the reality is that it is very good for the customer to have a vendor that knows the system inside and out, works on it regularly, stocks parts and has access to the manufacturer if they need to escalate trouble.

Just picture this whole process if the customer had hired an Intertel dealer ..... it would have been an entirely different outcome.

Intertel is no different than most other vendors... they want to know that their dealers will do a good job so end users will think highly of their system .... which is exactly what most intertel owners who are properly supported think.

You also made a comment about getting rid of the system ....... so you go out and spend $2,500 +- on a new system ..... that has less capability than their current system. That would pay for a whole lot of service calls.

You keep mentioning that you want to learn .... perhaps the most important thing to learn here is that you are not doing the customer any favors here...

Where did you come up with $2500 for a new system? This is a SMALL office, 5 desks, 4 lines (soon to be 3 I think) and they don't USE, nor are they interested in all of these features. That aren't accessible to them anyway because there are no local dealers they are willing to deal with. We would have to call a dealer from over an hour away, so we would add travel time to their bill on top of their standard minimum fees.
There are a LOT of options out there that would EASILY support the needs of this (and many other businesses in this area) for a fraction of your mentioned cost. Businesses such as these don't even use 10% of the capabilities of most of these phone systems. But they were told by the "experts" that's what they needed so they invested.

I see it all the time in the IT industry, people being completely oversold for what they need because it is good for the bottom line of the dealer/vendor. I match my clients to what fits their needs, now and into the far enough future without going overboard. By the time most of them could even THINK about utilizing some of the more advanced features that they would need a higher end configuration for, they should be considering new hardware anyway.

I know someone will take all that to mean I just keep reselling to my customers. Actually it's quite the opposite, I rarely make a replacement sale to my customer, and I don't get a lot of service calls from them. That is not why I am in business, I am here to make THEIR business run smoother, and if that means setting them up so they don't need me as much that is what I do. I detest those that make a sale, and then pad that sale for their own bottom line.

There is a place for phone systems such as this one, and a large call for them. The clients I deal with don't need these large/overpriced solutions that they spent a small fortune on. I would bet, that had they been sold a set of AT&T 4-line phones (I know, you are all aghast at the thought) but I would BET that the client would have NEVER known the difference between the AT&T setup (at about $100/phone or $500 total cost) versus the phone system they have now that I am sure cost them in the $10K (or even more) range. Yes, they were a larger outfit a few years ago, but not to justify that. But they contacted a "specialist" who was certified to sell a certain brand, so they weren't shown all the available choices, but relied on this "specialist" to not steer them wrong.

Most business owners don't know the first thing about tech (and I consider telecom as part of the tech) so they rely on those more experienced to guide them and just have to have faith they aren't being led astray.

Not doing any favors for my customers? Because I don't tell them to just keep handing over stockpiles of money? You ASSUME what I am billing out for. Please don't place judgment on what I am or am not offering my clients in the way of favors. Because I refuse to climb into any one vendors pockets and peddle their wares, I am doing my clients a FAR greater service. I could be pocketing money left and right if I would just sign up with some affiliate packages. Probably enough that I could just hire one of these "experts" for them, but I REFUSE to allow the dollar dictate my recommendations to my customers. The landscape changes so rapidly, if you settle into a single vendor (or maybe a handful of them) you begin limiting the options you can offer your clients because of other contractual obligations.

I understand that's how it works in "corporate America" and that I am fighting against the tide. But my reputation with my clients is far more important to me than making a few extra bucks. They know and trust that I have done research on their behalf to offer the best options at that given time to fit their current budget. Don't start preaching to me about how I operate my business or support my clients.

And as far as if they had hired an Inter-Tel dealer it would have been an entirely different outcome... all I can see that would be different is my client would be out an ADDITIONAL $500+ (I am assuming the fees here, but travel time, move the system, reinstall, etc... I'm figuring $500 is a WAY more than safe bet) than they spent with me (and that is compensating out what I billed for this project if it hadn't involved the phones). And they would have ended up with what? Oh! A working phone system, which they have by the way. They just don't have complete access to configure it to best fit their business because Inter-Tel doesn't WANT them to unless they hire a "specialist".

I apologize, but you have infuriated me with your assumptions of what I do and don't offer my clients. I won't tolerate my integrity being brought into question, I came here looking for advice from those that work with this stuff more and more. All I've found is a group of elitists who don't like to share their knowledge. Might not want to make this such a public forum. Maybe put something across the top the pages notifying everyone that if they haven't already drunk from the telecom punch bowl and sworn their allegiance to the brotherhood they should look elsewhere.

I have hundreds of customers who "have drunk from the bowl" and are extremely happy.

I stock the equipment to get them up and running at any point in time. That is a big issue you keep neglecting to address... it is not possible to properly support multiple brands of phone systems due to the need to stock parts.

I have spent a week in Texas at IP training with the maunfacturer and a week in Baltimore for my intial training on the system. I already had a background in telecom then spent a full week with an instructor who had 20 years experience in the industry and 5 years with the manufacturer in tech support troubleshooting problems. To say he was knowledgable is an understatement and i learned a great deal that week and have a great resource to contact if needed.

I am a fair, honest reputable businessman with great references and charge a fair price.

Who would you rather have move your phone system?

So, if/when they need to add a 5th line, they will have to scrap what they bought from you.

Unless the client is out in the middle of the desert, there will be at least one dealer nearby...maybe not InterTel, but another brand.

Two different industries, but it's not an industry issue. It's a business issue. We can't speak for the scrupples of other dealers.

I won't even go there...

Then they should have approached several dealer of different systems, THEN make a decision.

And your experience in selling/dealing with REAL telephone systems is what?

That's YOUR opinion. You said it, we didn't.

I've had enough of this crappola for one day....

I wasn't bringing anyone's abilities here into question. I am sure every one of you is well versed in many different capacities and does very well by your clients. The ones who are typically the most shoddy, are the ones that you don't find searching for answers and education online. They aren't interested in expanding their knowledge, just in finding the next victim.

I knew someone would pull the statement about me not getting service calls or repeat sales from my clients. My point there was they don't need to call ANYONE when I am done. Not that they go somewhere else. Always leave it to somebody to find the negative aspect of a statement and run with it.

So on the slim POSSIBILITY that they MIGHT need to add a 5th line we should sell them a package NOW that costs 20 TIMES (or more likely more) what the one that fits all their needs now does? That's some sound business advice. And when they WERE a much larger firm (I'm talking four times the staff they have now, all office based) they still only had 4 lines. Blows that argument all to hell.

I've worked with businesses with dozens of people in their offices, and VERY few of them required more than 4 phone lines into their facility. Most of them never even used THAT many. And now, with the proliferation of cell phone usage, even more of those phone lines sit dormant throughout the work day.

As I stated, there IS a HUGE market for the higher end services most of you provide. However, all across America are small businesses with way more invested into their telecom system than was necessary. Most of it because they were sold by some dealer on the features and how great those features would be. These phone systems have no place in 70% (give or take) of the businesses that have them.

I realize not a one of you will agree with me on that point, otherwise a good portion of your business comes into question. All I am advocating is give the end users a proper breakdown of what is out there. True, it is up to them to handle their due diligence, but most are completely lost when it comes to what is available. It then rests on the shoulders of businesses such as all of yours (and mine) to provide them with the information they need to make a solid choice. And when that choice is limited because whomever they are dealing with can only sell/service Brand X then they aren't properly educated.

I ALWAYS give them a variety of choices, in a variety of price ranges with the pros and cons laid out of each choice. That list is comprised of my evaluations of what they feel their needs are, versus what I can see those needs expanding to.

This debate can go on forever. You will most likely not be influenced to see it my way, and I most likely wont be influenced either. That doesn't make either of our points wrong. I think we are talking from two different lines of business thinking.

Here's a question for you. How many of you have sent a business elsewhere who was looking to make a significant investment in telecom because you KNEW that a different platform was better suited to their needs? Or did you just justify that what you were selling was good, they just needed to change the way they wanted to operate to fit some small concessions? I'd like some HONEST answers to that one. I know I have sent more than a few customers to some of my "competitors" because I felt they could supply a better service for what that client needed.

If you've had enough of the crappola, then quit dishing it out and expecting me to just curl up in a corner and concede you are right. And it ISN'T just my opinion, I get great feedback from my clients, happy that they finally are working with someone who doesn't feel like a snake oil salesmen to them. Too many in both the IT and telecom industry are exactly that and give the rest of us a bad name and an uphill climb to convince them we aren't ALL like that.

They don't have to call anyone when your done?
Do you mean they CAN'T call anyone when your done.

You are a work of art. You know nothing about telecommunications and you're making yourself look like a complete dumb ass with some of these statements. Really its time to call it a day and go remove a virus.

"I've worked with businesses with dozens of people in their offices, and VERY few of them required more than 4 phone lines into their facility. Most of them never even used THAT many. And now, with the proliferation of cell phone usage, even more of those phone lines sit dormant throughout the work day."

I almost peed in my pants after reading that from laughing so hard.

"As I stated, there IS a HUGE market for the higher end services most of you provide. However, all across America are small businesses with way more invested into their telecom system than was necessary. Most of it because they were sold by some dealer on the features and how great those features would be. These phone systems have no place in 70% (give or take) of the businesses that have them."

Darn it, I did pee my pants! Where did you get this figure from? :rofl:

"So on the slim POSSIBILITY that they MIGHT need to add a 5th line we should sell them a package NOW that costs 20 TIMES (or more likely more) what the one that fits all their needs now does? That's some sound business advice. And when they WERE a much larger firm (I'm talking four times the staff they have now, all office based) they still only had 4 lines. Blows that argument all to hell."

No it doesn't. It just again shows how little you know about telecommunications and the steps involved in sizing a system for a client.

Tito
Good reply
Opps I think I need to change my pants toooooo
A true trunk slammer

We have over 100 employees here, and the phones ring off the hook all day every day.
Clearly our PRI must be underused, and we really only need 4 phone lines. Someone HAD to have sold us a bill of goods!
You think WE give the industry a bad name????

OK, all your true colors are now displayed... my work here is done.

As I said before... All y'all have a good ole time up in them thar parts!

(you probably actually peed from worry that your going to be found out for overselling most of your clientele)

And I pulled that number out of thin air since not a ONE of you is man enough to admit to that fact. Oversold our customer?!?! Well heck no! We "sized that system for them" they just don't know they need it all so we informed them!

Off to find another telecom forum that is actually filled with people with OPEN minds I suppose.

Good luck to you!

why not unplug your keyboard ,open your mind to the fact that there may be better ways of doing things , hang around , read and learn ?

This guy is PRICELESS!!!

How about you sell them those awesome four line phones then?

The funny thing is that this forum is filled with people that are the NICEST most HELPFUL people I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. The truth is Greg if you had a "do over" and approached some of the folks here appopriately and with being polite and nice instead of making a mess out of the forum for the last couple of days, I am SURE someone would have offered to help you over thee phone or even dialed in and fixed your problem and you would have youto would have been a hero to the customer. Now it seems you are just trying to piss people

Two things .... first is i absolutely have sent people to a better platform.

Second ... read your last sentence ..... this was the case here and what we have been trying to tell you all along!

Greg,
Human nature being what it is, I suspect you will want to see what further comments will be made here. What I basically see is your dissing of a manufacturer's dealer only product policy. It is those manufacturers that set the bar and for us to violate that, violates our dealer agreements. Your beef is with Inter-Tel, not us.

That being said, this level of restriction does not apply to a number of general distribution products. Your local telecom distributor could point you to such products that would be very adequate to serve much of the small 4-line market that you work with.

Rather than dissing the dealer side structure, do some research and discover those telecom products that would permit you to accomplish your goals. There are many fine KSU based products to explore. We are not the ones that make the rules in this industry. We have to learn how to play by them or take our ball home.

Wow. It's hard to even figure out where to begin. The magic numbers that separate the wheat from the chaff is $1000 plus $200 x each phone, more or less. So your 5 phone installation from scratch about $2k. You want fries with that?

But that's not the point. Hardware costs of a Panasonic TA-824 is about $$$ with 3 display phones. It's severely limited and it doesn't do certain things, but it has some other neat features. So we all can sell up or down, depending on what the customer needs. I've even sold 2-line consumer grade solutions, but I draw the line on those 4-line products. It's called a business plan.

My key Panasonic customers have the maintenance console installed on a PC next to their phone system. They still don't do changes on their own. I always tell them that I'm going to restore their database from my file copy, so I don't care what they change, and if there's a PC next to their phone system, I can do it from remote.

I started working on Intertel in the, what, GLX GMX days. When the sytems became closed, I didn't elect to become a dealer, I was already dealing in Comdial and later Panasonic with a little Vodavi (sigh, they screwed us all) thrown in. I suppose if I really needed help on an Axxes I could get it, oh, wait I already have it arranged. I'm still not going to invest in spares or a system, nor will I ever make a market in the now discontinued product. I'll still maintain Avaya Partners, Nortel CICS and Comdial systems because I have a ton of spare parts and I am trained enough to be dangerous :-)
The key is the training AND the spares.

Your mistake is you demanded something that just isn't available. If I were an Intertel dealer, I wouldn't be giving my knowledge or livelyhood away so "some guy on the internet". The rules of this board are pretty well enforced, you can support a user in the open forum only with what's in the user manual. Installation advice is via PM and only at the responder's discretion.
However, you came in with the wrong attitude. You didn't contribute anything, and now you asked for installer's access, but you didn't contribute anything to get that access and you haven't demonstrated that you are a professional in the telecom industry (more like quite the opposite).

I don't see much hope for you. It harkens back to the old Fido days. Watch, keep your mouth shut and observe before you jump into something you don't know anything about. At some point in time, and I think very soon, this topic will be closed. The horse is already dead.

Carl


Sorry Carl I had to remove the Panasonic price. :nono:

Yes I have sent several sales and service calls to my competitors when I feel they can better serve the customer.

Greg the public forum is meant for the general user for help with User Guide type information. There are many professionals in both the telecom and data field eager to help others. There is a private Installer forum for more in depth support. Because the Installer forum has restrictions we tend to offer new comers limited help in the public forum. We take our trade very seriously so the "good ole boy" attitude comes out when someone comes in and attacks our industry. This thread has gone way past the original topic which is for information that cannot be given out here it must be obtained from a Inter-tel dealer.