atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems Merlin 820D2 - Red Warning Light of Death

Hello all,

Recently I made a deal with a friend of mine that I would install my old Merlin 820 system I had set up at my house at his backyard hangout in exchange for him covering the cost for me to get an older AT&T Partner system and some phones.

I installed the system at his place six days ago today, and he just called me today and informed me that the system Warning light was on and all of the phones were not working. I stopped by after school today to inspect the system. I powered it down using the power supply's power switch, and removed all of the station and line boards one by one to ensure none of the boards were faulty. The warning light remained on. I even removed the software package module with the Busy Buster, DXD, SA, and Call Forwarding features just to make sure. This made no difference.

I've had the system for about a year with no trouble whatsoever installed in my bedroom. It was always kept behind a surge protector and even the power running to it was conditioned by a very nice APC power conditioner and battery backup unit.

I also removed the power supply and thoroughly inspected the board and the two fuses that were visible, and neither were blown. (the warning light wouldn't have come on anyway if they were, I'm assuming).

Upon asking my friend if there were any power surges or other changes that could've negatively impacted the system, he informed me that there was a power outage the day before, but, "the phone system was already down before that." I also learned that he recently tested a 1200 watt generator on his hangout's power grid, which receives power from (I'm assuming and hoping) the power grid in his home. I personally believe the generator was somehow at fault here, but I'm trying to cover all the bases here before jumping to any conclusions.

The Merlin system is mounted on the wall about 5 feet 9 inches from the floor, and is not in any danger of water damage or excessive dust. It is powered by a power strip also mounted on the wall to the right of the system carrier.

I have already tried all the basic troubleshooting steps I know of, including power cycling the system, disconnecting the voice terminals, and removing/moving the line and station module boards.

For the time being, I'm honestly looking for input as to what could've caused this system to stop working, because I'm at a total loss. Before any of you make any suggestions, I understand that the Merlin system is old and outdated, but my friend (who already covered the cost of my Partner system) does not have the financial capacity or the desire to spend more money on an entirely new system when I just installed this one, so if possible, we'd like to work with what we've got.

My friend isn't too happy that the Merlin system is out of commission after not even a full week, and honestly I don't blame him, considering he's out the cost of my system. However, I'm almost positive his hangout's electrical grid is the culprit, as the lights out there flicker when one of the three refrigerators kick on...

Either way, in the end I'm hoping I can get this thing working again, I feel bad having a working system when he's got nothing, even if it is his own fault for skimping on wiring quality.

Thank you all in advance for your diligent assistance.

telecom guy10

Hey Scott....

If all of the phones are dead and the red light stays on no matter what, I would hazzard a guess that the processor is shot. John may have cooked it with the generator...but proving that is going to be tough.

Replacing the processor is the next step and warning John against trying that test again would be next.

Got any "spare parts" to troubleshoot with?

Paul:

Do you happen to know where the test points are? Honestly I'm not sure I want to spend another four and a half hours if he isn't even going to take care of it...

1864: Unfortunately not. All I had was a BIS 34D, two BIS 10s, two line cards, one station card, and the carrier with power supply...

I just edited that part of the post. I looked at a picture of the power supply and don't see any test points.

You're kidding right? How about because it's probably older than you are.

-Hal

Throw it away. It served its purpose. RIP. What did he think he was getting with a system that old

start with first replacing the memory battery, then the circuit module
you can use the 529A ( 820D ) or the
533B (820D2 )

you can find the battery at Mike Sandman's web site
https://www.sandman.com/

Thank you cvrbob, I appreciate your suggestions, and will look into replacing those parts.

It will work just fine with a dead battery. Battery is just to maintain the programming during power interruptions. So don't waste your money.

Red light means the power supply has a problem. You might be able to find an 820 carrier with power supply on ebay if you want to spend the money. These things are getting scarce because they are so old and it's tough to find working ones.

-Hal

since i have had a 820D2 working in my house for about 22 years the red light has come on 3 times 2 to replace the battery & 0nce for a bad memory module, temporary used a 529 to replaced a 533B, never had a bad power supply , the unit will not work with out a memory module

Well, I'll take your word for it but I never saw a red light when the memory battery went bad. I only knew it when they lost power and then the programming- assuming it was even programmed and not left at default. I'm assuming that the OPs system is inoperative so it is something more than the battery. The module at the top of the carrier where the battery is located is the processor and of course it won't operate without it.

I can't believe we're talking about a 30 year old antique. Maybe Merlin Man or Tommy remembers the 820 and will correct me if I'm wrong.

-Hal

I took an 820D2 off the wall to make room for (wait for it) an IP Office 406V2 last month. The local Ace hardware has a 4 line, 10 station 820D2 that might be as old as the building itself (30 years?). I'm afraid to ask the owner what he plans to do when it dies, as I'm sure he has never considered the possibility.

Why did you go with a 406V2 to replace a 4X10 Merlin?
Just askin.....

Those old Merlins kick ass.

They are rock solid, but come to think of it the Model T car was pretty tough also. Would I want to take to the road in the morning in a cross country trip in my Model T?
No, I like A/C, PS, PB, Cruse Control, leather heated seats, and HP.

LOL!

Edit to fix the spelling of "Model" LOL

Until a few years ago virtually all greek restaurants and diners around here had Merlin systems. Food service loved them. I think they liked the rugged phones and the simplicity. It was only 10 years ago that I installed a refurbed 820D2 and phones for some National in a brand new Cheese Cake Factory restaurant. I don't see many any more. There's only so many times something can go around the block before it finally craps out.

-Hal

Hello all:

I have an updated regarding the Merlin. John just called me to tell me that he turned on the system and plugged the phones back in. He said that the phones were working, but the buttons were reset (this is what I gathered from what he told me).

While trying to get him to program a new loudspeaker page button, it became apparent that the Program setting on the Test/Program switch was not functioning.

Also, when the phone was put into test mode, only the red LEDs would light up and they would light up solid instead of flashing. I'm confused as to why the phones are functioning again after they were not at all not too long ago.

I had him take a video of the Test/Program issue and text it to me so I could post it online so you all could take a look at it.

As of right now, I'm convinced something is wacko with the processor, considering the phones are receiving the right amount of power, but the logical processes are not working right.

Here is a link to the video:

Your input is appreciated, and I appreciate the input so far.

John fixed it. It's Alive!! Now it needs a new battery- Read Above^ and remember...

"Despite being over two decades old, the Merlin's modern electronic features and legendary Bell System era quality and durability still make the Classic Merlins very popular telephone systems with small business's without heated seats"

Trying to keep this going is only extending the end users problems.
Time to upgrade.

I'd love to upgrade the system, but John does not want to spend any more money when he's stuck with something that doesn't work after ordering my Partner system not even a month ago. During our discussion on the phone last night, he did mention that if we can't fix the Merlin (which apparently is the case now) that he would be willing to consider covering the shipping costs for someone generous to send us a system to replace the Merlin.

The reason John wanted the Merlin in the first place was for background music and loudspeaker paging, as well as the intercom features (voice call and ringing intercom). He needs the loudspeaker paging and the ability to interrupt the music when making a page. There are no outside CO lines where the system is installed, but John is considering MagicJack as the main CO line, so it would only need to support one CO line minimum.

If anyone has an older system and a few system phones (we currently have three Merlin phones) that they'd be willing to part with for the shipping cost then that would be greatly appreciated. Please PM me with any considerations, or send me an email with a shipping cost quote to zip code 36527.

Thank you all for your continuous assistance and for volunteering your time to help me out.

Regards,

Scott
telecom guy10

Sounds like a warranty issue to me. You sold him the Merlin and it crapped out. Looks like you owe him a new something.

-Hal

Why don't you just give him back the partner system?

Looks like that's the only solution, I guess. This is just frustrating because it is his power grid that caused the problem in the first place. I sincerely hope that this Partner system doesn't get ruined too.

Thanks for the help guys.

something as old as that Merlin or the partner doesn't owe anybody anything and is living on borrowed time .

Throw in a UPS and keep your fingers crossed.

-Hal

I honestly am very frustrated that John is blaming me for this. He knew what he was getting and in addition the power grid problem is his responsibility and his fault. The only reason I'm even giving him the Partner now is because I am leaving for the Navy on June 13th and I liquidating most of my personal belongings, and it'll be a few years before I'm settled anywhere and it's just more stuff to carry around. Out of principle I didn't want to give in to his harassment (literally, harassment) and phone calls about getting it fixed. I must have explained it six times what caused the problem and he just ignores it. But it isn't worth it, and I explained that if the Partner breaks I'm done fixing his things that he doesn't take care of.

Good luck, don't let it get you down

I think it still sounds like the system has a bad processor/battery or both. Being that old, just you moving from one location to the other could create the intermittant problem you describe. I don't think it was caused by a power problem from a external generator.

The battery was never an issue, the only issue would exist if I unplugged the system–it would just lose it's programming and return to default settings. Generators do not have a perfect sine wave which I think may be part of the problem, plus the fact that the system is old (like everyone else has agreed so far), and the fact that the electrical grid is jerry-rigged with a bunch of wire nuts and which, according to John, is "grounded to the house." I honestly don't believe that at all, and if it is grounded to the house, it probably isn't done properly.

I just find it too convenient that after a year and a half of perfect, problem-free operation that the system would stop working after about 6 days. I think that something either happened to it or it was tampered with and John doesn't want to admit it, because he just wants free stuff at other's expense, which is something I've learned over the years unfortunately. I'm starting to realize what a mistake this was to try and make an honest trade with him, too. He even had the gall to ask me to pay for shipping if anyone sent any offers on here, when he specifically said on the phone that he would be willing to cover the cost if it was a reasonable offer.

Like I said before, I explained to him on the phone, if he doesn't take care of the Partner system, he's SOL and can get his own phone system and figure it out himself. I've gone way out of my way and even broken my own principles by giving him a system he not only does not deserve but in the long term will not take care of.

Oh well!

So now you know what this business is like and why I won't sell or install used or refurbished equipment. You touch it and your name is on it and when anything bad happens it's always your fault.

-Hal

Beside friends and family are your worst enemys.

Telecom Guy10,
You seem like a good kid.
I looked and we have an old 410 (bread box) Merlin lying in the stock room. It's kinda dirty as it came out of a coal processing plant a few years back, but it was in working order when we took it out.
If you want to pay the shipping, it's yours for the taking.

PM me if interested.

I agree with you, Mike. What a nice gesture. I'd be willing to pick up the tab for the shipping if you let me know what it costs.

So often, we bash people who lack our knowledge. We often overlook the fact that they are young and have a genuine interest in getting into our industry. If we continue to do this, who will take over when we're done?

Our friend Jeff Moss tolerated our beat downs for years and yet he's still an active member of our family. He has the utmost respect for us and everything that he has learned here. I have equal respect for him.

We should all throttle back a bit and be nice every once in a while. We didn't learn this biz overnight, right?

Who's been doing the bashing?


You are quite right there. During Sandy many businesses set up generators for power. I had one customer who's UPS would constantly switch off line because of the poor power and the battery was dead. Wound up disconnecting the UPS and connecting directly to the generator power. Fortunately it did no harm to their server or phone system. After the storm I read an article about how the computer repair places were doing a booming business because of all the fried PCs.

To my knowledge only Honda makes generators that provide clean power. Those would be the models that have an inverter that provides the power from a DC generator. Unfortunately they aren't very big and are expensive.

-Hal

I don't mean to get all sappy, but you all really are a special group of people, and I mean that. You volunteer your time for free just for the sake of helping others figure things out, without really any benefits to yourself except knowing that you helped someone out, which is a level of generosity you don't see much these days (just drive on a public road for about twenty minutes). I just think it's awesome. The fast and reliable help I've gotten from this forum has been invaluable and enlightening, and it's been a fun ride so far!


Hal: I have to give credit to Paul/dexman for the generator sine wave idea. He mentioned it when I discussed it with him. My knowledge of electricity is limited but enough not to get killed or blow anything up... (lol)

mdaniel: Right now where I stand, I am waiting on John to seek out more information on some supposed "telephone stuff" at a local church that he used to attend. I don't want to cost anyone any money and time to ship something to us until I know for a fact that the stuff at that church isn't useable to us. If the stuff at the church isn't feasible or available, I will bring your offer to John. If we were to accept-I would put your Merlin behind the Partner and use the Partner as a PBX of sorts, this way I can create mock DIDs for each phone using ringing options and line assignments on the Merlin. That way each Merlin extension can have it's own extension number (other than ext 10 which rings for all of course) that John can use. If your breadbox has the paging/MOH module, we can use that too, or just use the Page port on the Partner and hook it up to the stereo that's already in place. Then I can just make one of the Merlin lines a hotline to Intercom 70 on the Partner. In addition, I can put a hotline phone in the house so that his parents can ring the phones out there if they get too loud, which is something that frequently happens. I'm sure they would be happy to have that.

Ed: a special thanks to you for being willing to do that for me. I can't thank you enough!

Thanks to everyone for everything so far in this thread, and for helping out in general whenever myself or anyone else has needed it. (even if they all don't say thank you)

Best regards,

Scott

Scott,

I think you are ready to tackle the SIP/IP products next!

Actually BTS01, until recently I had an Asterisk server with about 10 CallCentric DIDs on it up and running with a two port Cisco 186 ATA and an iPhone softphone. I had a conference line, a fake phone company automated menu system with call queues... I had it all, to say the least. But CallCentric seems to have DNS lookup issues or some form of registration problems, so the lines would only work part of the time. I ended up getting irritated after trying AsteriskNOW, FreePBX, and Elastix still to no avail. Since I'm packing up for the Navy, there was no point in leaving it set up when it wasn't working half the time anyways. Looks like I've beat you to it a bit!

Thank you for serving.