atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Other TDM Phone Systems Sprint - Tadiran Telephones & Systems Tadiran VoIP System- General Help/Training Info?

We run a Tadiran VoIP system. I understand how a VoIP system works that uses Cat5 cables- each phone basically has a NIC in it- and uses the server, etc.

But I am failing to understand how this VoIP network of ours works. It has about 20 phones in the main office (up to 5 in each terminal office across the US)... and has a VoIP connection.

The phones all are plugged in using regular old telephone wiring (Cat3). I guess they use some sort of device to plug our building's telephone line into the internet somewhere. This is what I want to know more about- how is it done, and how does it work?

Basically $40K was spent on this crappy phone system that has problems several days a week. Ports need to be reset every day, voicemail won't work, when you fax something- a phone will ring, etc. The phone jokers here just have no idea what they are doing- and why I need to start taking this stuff over.

The phones aren't fancy. No backlight- just basic LCD (not like the fancy color touchscreen Cisco phones). Just a Cat3 plug is all that is powering it- no external power.

Those would not be voice over ip phones, those would be standard digital phone. The system itself interfaces into you network via a card in the system cabinet.

Welcome aboard, Zacdl. As far as "fancy color touchscreen Cisco phones" ----in the vernacular ---- ain't no such thing. Cisco and phone in the same sentence just does not compute. Cisco stands for "Can I Still Call Out?" They are computer terminals you talk on and have the same inherent problems of any computer....massive downtime, high cost licenses, constant upgrades, and QOS issues. But in the computer world that is standard and you are used to it. Not so in the phone world. 99.999 up-time is standard. And on Cat Nothing wiring.

Now, as far as "the phone jokers" go, have you gone back to the installer and held their feet to the fire? As you are unable to identify the type and model without assistance, I would say you are computer-centric. That will assist you on the network portion of the telephone system, the minor side. The TDM side works just like your server does with hardware, a skeleton software, and a programmable software to make the system flexible. But the software is restricted to the hardware (read "real world")that is required to interface with the rest of the "real world".

The $40K spent on this "crappy system" would buy how many seats on a Cisco? Every problem (except the network) you have stated can be taken care of with a qualified technician. Who is resetting the ports each day? What are your expectations of service for the VM? Why wouldn't the fax machine ring when called? Or is it an internal fax server? See, the more input the more answers or questions.

If you cannot deal with the installer, check the "Installer" tab above and find another in your area. Or, "Google" your manufacturer and contact them about factory support/training.

Good luck from a 40+-year phone joker .

FlexSet 280D is the model of phones we are using.

I agree 100%. I could handle the Cisco phones, because as you say: it is so much more computer-like.

Phones SHOULD be up 99% of the time. These are not, however.

I have held their feet to the fire many times. I've called corporate Tadiran, and they say it is a problem with the software (my thoughts- is if Tadiran doesn't seem to care- they are at fault!).

"The $40K spent on this "crappy system" would buy how many seats on a Cisco?"
No idea. A server to run it won't cost us much. I know phones are around $300, give or take. No idea on the software. But my problem here would the the massive crossover. What would you use to connect these internal phones to the outside world? I assume a service like Vonage or something similar?

"Every problem (except the network) you have stated can be taken care of with a qualified technician."
That is exactly what I think as well. I just think these JOKERS don't have a clue.

"Who is resetting the ports each day? What are your expectations of service for the VM? Why wouldn't the fax machine ring when called? Or is it an internal fax server??"
I have to reset the ports, as long as I can do that (sometimes I cannot even login to the TDM (or whatever ) to reset them, and end up calling them anyways!).
The whole system is screwy. If someone faxes something somewhere else (only to certain other locations)- a phone rings in someone else's office.

"If you cannot deal with the installer, check the "Installer" tab above and find another in your area. Or, "Google" your manufacturer and contact them about factory support/training."
I'm in the process of talking with Tadiran about learning more about the system, but I'll check the installer tab.

Thanks!

ATTABOY, Zacdl. Keep after it. :thumb:

It seems you have done your due diligence. It also sounds like you are trying to program through the network interface option. Once you get set up with the proper training and / or support they should get you squared away.

Good luck, enjoy your stay here at Sundance, and don't be bashful about asking questions.

Thanks...
Heard from Tadiran today. Seems like Tadiran has been looking into the issue as well and they think it has something to do with software.

Well, fine and peachy- but they still "don't know" what the problem is.


Where do you recommend I start reading up on systems like this?

Have you tried looking into another company with a certified tech? I have installed 100's of these systems and they are hardly "crap". Generally, I run into these nightmares from companies installing them not either being certified OR been around long enough in the PBX arena to understand what is going on. These are "big boy" systems and not for the common trunker that puts in key systems.

Reading will only take you so far and if you don't have a background in telephony you will be frankly lost. I would suggest you consider taking the basic I&M class at Tadiran so you can get hands on with the product. We are sending a customer there now because he will be responsible for a 3000 port system. Luckilly, you understand computers and it will make it easier for some parts like the IP stuff and voicemail.

I'm afraid the closest techs would be over 100 miles away. Would Tadiran pay for them? Quite honestly- the company doesn't want to pay another dime for this system until it gets fixed.

I understand it isn't crap. What is crap is the crap they feed us. They tried to explain that it wasn't working today because it is on the "bleeding edge" of technology- so it's glitchy. I'm pretty sure it has been around for several years now.

An I&M class is what I'm looking for. I could at least familiarize myself with what is what, and kindof basically how it works by reading about it first- just was wondering if you had any information to suggest reading?

Do you have any info on the Tadiran classes? I can't seem to find anything on the web.

You have to go through your local dealer or a dealer (I think). You might have to call Tadiran on this is your local dealer is not helping you. They can get you signed up and they send a dvd/cd for you to watch and (I think) things you need to know for the class.

You seem to be pretty upset at your vendor. Tadiran systems are pretty stable when installed by technicians that are properly trained. Coral Tech knows the benefit of having good solid certified techs. These systems are very good. I've been installing these since 96 and can tell you I wouldnt really want to work on anything else. I've just accepted a job as an IT/Telecom Specialist. I wish there was a Tadiran here and the 28 other sites I will be administering. By the way, all are connected with VOIP and centralized vmail.

Tadiran does supply a comfort letter to customers as requested.
The purpose of this committment is to provide service to the customer should the authorized dealer not fulfill the obligations .

The key word here is "Authorized Dealer "
you didnt say If you contracted with an authorized dealer.

I would escalate your dissatisfaction to a high level @ Tadiran and request not only a comfort letter but a ressolution to your complaints.

If I were in your position I start top down .


Good luck.

Well, Regional Sales Manager is as high as I have gotten so far.
It doesn't sound too good- although the dealers have made comments that seems Tadiran has been getting onto them about some things- Tadiran hasn't made much of a move to say "Tell you what- we'll fix the system and send someone else to get you up and running".

I don't know if they are Authorized or not... is there some sort of database that shows authorized Tadiran dealers?

Ask the Tadiran regional sales manager.

Zach,

I'm one of the certified technicians working for the authorized dealer who sold you that $40k "piece of crap". I'll start by apologizing for the week I've spent trying to sort out this problem on the Voicemail.

Fellow Techs, 3 of the 4 ports on a WiCMC that has been running fine for over a year locked up a couple of times over the last month, then went totally crazy last Friday. I am working with TadiranAmerica to resolve the problem. They see nothing wrong in the IPX, Activoice thought they saw programming errors, but their fixes didn't work.

Zach, The ports you are resetting are the voicemail ports, that's why the voicemail is not working. I have not heard anything about faxes ringing phones. I'm right across the alley, please let me know and I'll fix it for you. Along with the voicemail, as soon as we figure out what's locking up the ports.

And, I personally think I&M for you would be a great idea. An educated customer contact can ease communictions both ways in resolving problems. That is of course if you can survive the owner, you are our 8 contact over there in the last 3 years I've been maintaining you as a customer.

Zach,
After the post above from Mr. Taylor ,I appears
that action is being taken in your behalf by the vendor and Tadiran to resolve the real issue that is the voicemail.

As far as the phones installed someone within your company made a purchasing decision ,probably based on $$
and you should ask them why you have the phones
that you do.

I would think you should give all
involved some time to resolve your issues.

Mr. Taylor
Thank you for your response ,and the other side of this situation.

Rea,

You might try using the HUT=D field in the system setup/integration and in the Coral turn on in SFE Disconnect=D. I have seen this before on the older OS2 systems when the APDL wigged out for whatever reason.

Good response and glad to see a voice of reason.

Disconnect in SFE is set to D. I believe HUT is also, one of the first things Tomas had me check. I will double check this morning when I get on site.

Well, I'm glad this is working out for everyone. I have had supper with Ralph when he was in KC a while back. Give him the time and resources and he will get you taken care of.

Just remember the infamous Cisco computer reply when they don't work --- especially when it is their VoIP ---- "It's just a software glitch". :rofl:

See, Isn't this a great place?

The WICMC seems to have that issue with ports not answering. I've seen it more than once. There never seems to be a solid reason from tech support on why this is happening.

Sorry for the slow update, but the way this problem has gone I wanted to make sure. The problem appears to have been in the board. We replaced the IPC and have not had anymore lockups. Did find the customer had created several loops in the CCR tree, but they don't appear to have been the problem.

Was this a UCMC or WICMC? If there was a loop in the CCR menu I could see where that would cause an issue. Tadiran does say not to have a CCR menu loop to itself to repeat.

WiCMC, Tomas said it was a loop, however, when the port locked up, both the IPX and the WiCMC showed the ports idle and ready to use. The loops where in some old programming that had been missed in the many changes the customer asked for in the CCR tree. We had unfortunately given them access to the Admin Console. Not sure rather to let them in or not now.

SWEET!!!

So is Zac happy yet? Tadiran is a tank, I wish they built there VM the same way, the cmc was solid, icmc almost as good, but the Wicmc seems to be iffy. Grant it, it is a good Voicemail, but compared to TADIRAN it just doesn't feel the same. Just my $0.02.
I am NOT a Tadiran certified tech, and I don't know all the ins and outs, but I can get by. Our certified techs take care of all the neat stuff. I focus my endevors on other systems.

It was Kinda neat to see a customer rant only to have "their" tech respond. I love this board!

My 2 cents. If customer is going to program:
install and set up system to thier satisfaction, collect money, then change PW to one of thier choosing. Tell them to back up before every change.
If they screw it up, they did it. Put in bk and go.
If they dont have one put in mine and then update, at a charge of course, unless they are a REAL good customer.

We replaced the board, which has cured the problem, and have restricted admin to us for the first month. After that...

Zac seems to be happy, for now...

Thanks for the update, Ralph. Good to hear. I know you like Arkansas, but Sam sure would like to see ya !

Have a good weekend.