atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring cabling in sequence

When we cable jobs, most of the time we terminate the cables in any order. So when we go to label the voice and data jacks they are out of numerical order. For example, you'll find a plate with V-9 & D-20, instead of V-1 D-1.

So, how do you guys run and terminate cables in numerical order? When I do it I find it to be very time consuming.

I do it the same way as you. Punch them down then go back and Tone/Test/Label. I dont care where V5 ends up in the office, I care that the punch block and patch panel are in order. I usually make a map anyway.

If a customer/CG wants the voice and data cables to be in order on the office floor I have no problem doing so for them. I just ask them, "so when I add a V/D drop here in the middle, your numbering plan goes out the window." They always reply with "we shouldnt be adding any more cables" :rolleyes:

For example, you'll find a plate with V-9 & D-20, instead of V-1 D-1.
The V1 D1 on the same plate is ok until you add just 1 data drop at one location then 2 voice cables at another.

On a new build I always number the runs on the print first. So naturally it falls as the furthest runs from the communications room are V/D 1, V/D 2, etc. I label all the dual runs first, then go back and add in the singles : V 31 as a wall phone by its self, D 36 as a printer by its self, etc.

If I walk into an existing build, I study their existing setup and number accordingly, starting with the first available number. Sometimes cable numbers have been skipped, so I'll fill them in first (i.e. - if V 1 - 12 are in order, then they skip to 14 - 22 / 24 - 30, I'll make the first three V runs 13, 23, 31, etc.

I too agree that the jack side doesn't matter in the end, but I still suggest starting off in logical order and taking additions as they come.

I always label both ends before I cable and terminate in order. Why would you want to walk around toning everything? It also makes testng easier because you know where all the locs are.

Kevin has the right idea, IMO. You can kill an AWFUL lot of time toning cables if you have a bunch of them. ESPECIALLY if you wind up doing it by yourself. Try it in a 2 story motel with no working elevator and all home runs. We'd bid out of town jobs that are cabled by 'sparkie' as cable in place and marked with room number/location. If we have to tone cables end-to-end, it's by the hour, whole hours, and not cheap! And I'm here to tell you, I'd MUCH rather not have to bill the work. Wear out a pair of shoes in an 'unlabeled' job! Maybe I should mention that we almost never sent more than 1 man on a motel job. But, our contract covered everything, including stuff you learn the hard way. "If the front counter is not in place when we are ready to install "Front Desk" equipment, Tech goes on $80/hr rate and waits, or leaves for home and returns when counter is installed, GC option. We'd always ask if the counter is in place before we left "home". GC says yes, we take their word. If it's not when we get there, we'd point out the clause in the contract and get started. There was always at least 3 days work before we needed to do the counter, but! One outfit ignored the warning, the day came and the counter STILL wasn't even on site! GC picked the go home option, (2 days each way) and said he'd have someone local finish it and take it out of our bid. I pulled the system, put in the van, loaded the phones in the van and he tried to stop me. I pointed out that the equipment was ours until paid for and the warranty would be void if anyone else worked on it without our approval. I eventually won the arguement, when he called my office and they backed me up. I wound up going back 2 weeks later and reinstalling, finishing the front counter and the whole mess cost him 30% more, which he did pay! Yes we did lot's more business with the outfit, probably because we were always the best bid and everything worked when we left. And we gave free phone support 1 year, and took care of warranty issues using reliable subs or going ourselves. 'Ya' git wacha pay fer'! John C. (Not Garand)

I always label both ends and keep the runs in a logical order. When possible I also try to keep the voice matching the data like Tony mentioned.

Almost every office ends up with adds in the end but it is still easier to troubleshoot/change cross connects/etc when the majority of the cables are in a logical order. For instance, you have a row of offices that were done in order and one office has furniture in the way of the jack so you can't see the jack number but the offices on either side have the jack number visible. If the cables are in order, there is a good chance you know what the cable number is without moving furniture and without toning it.

As for taking slightly longer to terminate the blocks/patch panels in order, it just takes a little planning to speed things up. I generally seperate the voice from the data as they are pulled in with an extra hook etc. Then I also tend to group 6 or 12 at a time with a bit of tape depending on the job size. This makes identifying the numbers a whole lot easier than searching through the bulk of cable for each individual number.

It takes more time to go back and tone everything out IMO. You're basically doing everything twice.

if your going to test then why does it take longer to tone ?

two people walkie talkie , plug tone in ,label , plug tester in ,test go to next jack its a lot faster than marking each end and then organizing them prior to terminating

I agree with 94astro. Pre-numbering is a PITA. We don't tone out data cables. We use the data lights. Plug in the red light into one data and the green into the other and find them instantaneously on the patch panel and then test. I have been doing that for years and years. I am always surprised when people say they have never seen them used before. I couldn't work without them. We do tone voice cables, but they can be found very quickly after they are punched down anyway. The numbering schemes get obliterated with the first adds, often before the job is even completed.

I'm with Skip on this one. That's the way we do it. To me it's a big PITA to label, make sure you pull the right run to the right location, label the other end, then go through them again when you cut them down. When I run cable I line and stack the boxes up on the floor (if I don't have reels, hate those damn boxes!) grab a handful and run them to the locations without regard. Heck of a lot faster. It's always been my opinion that only sparkies label cables.

When it's time to finish I install the jacks and label the plates in order. Then tone/terminate/test. I don't usually work alone unless it's a small job, we use Nextels or walkie-talkies.

Now if it's a really big job you would separate your runs into groups in some logical order according to the building layout. But that's as far as I would go when I'm running the cables.


-Hal

The way we currently do it is fast, run all cables, don't worry about labeling cables while running. Terminate at jacks and at backboard. Then tone, test and label like Skip said, two guys with walkie talkies. We then fill out a floor plan and staple it to the back board.

But, sometimes after we are done the customer says 'why aren't the jacks in order?' We only don't do it because the way I know how is too consuming for the time that we have. So the fastest way to do it is to label both ends as you go huh? Thanks for the info.

I terminate all jacks and then tone the cables as I punch down at 66 block and patch panel. I am to picky to not have the jacks and panel in order even if it will be disorganized when more are installed. I work alone so I have a voice tagger that will tone 8 lines or the little plugs that will do 20 at a time.

bfdatacom I would like to know more about the data lights.

I use the data lite also for data ,the kit I have has 100 lights you plug in the patch panel and two remotes with switches you reverse polarity on the remote so one will light the light green the other red . a lot faster and sure than toning

obviously its back to the tone and probe for 66 blocks

Skip, don't you have to have the cables already terminated at both ends to use it? Not going to help if you have your jacks in order and then do the patch panel.

-Hal

yes we terminate both ends and then label so two data drops in the same room (or even the same faceplate)will have non sequential numbers

same with voice

so one face plate could be
V7 V 12
D9 D14

I've done it both ways...trying to label the print and go in order. Inevitably I find that I missed something or need to add a jack later on and it gets messed up. What I like to do is keep the patch panel going in order and not worry as much about the workstation jacks.

I haven't found it to be a problem to label everything as I go. I use the small labels from 3m that you write on with a sharpie and the clear part wraps back over the wire and your writing so it doesn't smear. Seems to be easier for us if it's all in order no messing with walkie talkies or toners just whoever is on the remote end of the tester sees pass and plugs into the next one in order. I think for the most part it's personal preference, I did work with some guys who labled nothing yet had four people toning at the same time, reminded me of something to do with a monkey and a football. But that's how they did things.

We always marked up a floor plan and then labeled and pulled the cables. But then again - the smallest job I've worked on in the last 30 years was probably 100 locations on a floor. Some places had 300-400 on a floor. I think it's a lot easier on a larger job to have it all laid out. But if anyone has experience to the contrary - please let me know.

I've never used a Datalite or other similar unit. Toner & Wand for the last 35 years, Grey buzzer and rubber butt set before that.

We always test with a PentaScanner/Fluke/whatever. The customer almost always wants to see the results.

Sam

Mark as I go and label in order. I keep the data and the voice in different bundles and on large jobs pull in zones so not so much to sort through. It's worked well for me. As far as additions after the job is done on voice I just start an "A" block so to keep numbering consistent if there is already a 14 in the room floor whatever and 15 is in a different area it becomes 15A. Data it just has to become whatever the next number on the patch panel is I suppose I could have an A panel also, but that could get a little messy. Anyhow it's hard to change old habits.

Sam; do you still have the grey buzzer? the one that only had continuaty and z with 2 d cells.
any chance you'd part with it?

We pull all the drops, voice and data. WE then terminate on both ends then tone and use the Data Lites. I have never had a customer say why ask why the jack is labeled V-1 D-14. I did have a customer ask me to have all the wall plate screws horizontal though, he never asked about the labels. Our installers use walkie talkies and can cruise pretty well.

We are currently doing 4 school projects with about 400 Cat 6 drops per school. There we will have to have all the cables labeled on both ends before termination and have a room by room number strategy. We have all the drops on the plans numbered and it is working fine. The guys say it just takes a little longer to label the wires first but on the back end certifying will go faster because all the plates will be labeled.

So it's like flipping a coin on the way to do it.

I say it's 5:00 somewhere and I am having a beer!!

:toast:

Cosmo

Patch panels labeled out of sequence would drive me bonkers. Seems more professional to see A-01 thru A-48 as opposed to A-36 thru A-13. I just don't see the huge time difference in labeling cables. When you puch down it's not like you have to start with 1 anyway.

https://shopping.yahoo.com/p:IDEAL%20INDUSTRIES%20DataLite%20Network%20Accessory:1991098500:page=details;_ylt=A9FJo1BeV69I6GgBJwCoEMAF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiZ2o2Y3ZwBHNlYwNzaWJzcGVj
There used to be a company called "data lite" but I guess they were bought by Ideal. They send light on the third pair. You flip a toggle if you want the light to be green or red. I have 300 of the little lights from a long time ago and two sets of transmitters. You put a little RJ45 plug into each of your patch panel ports. Then the guy on the other end puts the light into the unknown number. The guy at the patch panel sees a green and a red light. We usually make the green the first jack on the faceplate and the red is the right side. Then you get the numbers, print them out and you're done. By the way, you can even send the light on an unterminated cable.....just put your toner clips on the third pair.

the patch panels and 66 blocks are numbered in sequence it the workstation end that's random (but marked)

Ok. So at least the PP is marked in order.

I prefer that the V and D cable numbers match. Inevitably, there will be more voice cables than data, so if there's a 48 port patch panel, the extra voice cables start with 49 or something like that.

If it is a situation where multiple data cables per work station are required, I'll set up two separate patch panels: One for the primary data cables and the second (with the same numbers) for the secondary ones. The panels are labeled "A" and "B" with pedestal marking stickers so that there's no confusion.

If they weren't so labor-intensive, I'd prefer to use the unloaded patch panels so that the jack modules can remain the same color at both ends.

I guess everybody has their own preferences but for me it all depends on how many cables we're talking about and how far apart they are at the distant end.

But generally speaking if I'm running around 20 cables or less I run the cables, terminate both ends, tone & label without concern to the order or precise location of each cable.

If I'm running 20-40 cables I like to group them into groups of 10 and keep them in close proximity to each other, I still don't worry about the precise location of any particular cable or any labeling while running them. The only real benefit is I can tell how how many cables I have pulled so I don't miss one or more. (If I have 15 cables and 16 outlets I know I missed one)

If I'm running 40 and above I usually have a set of floor plans and I like to label every cable before running it and mark the precise location of each one on the plan as I run them.
That just helps me keep it all straight in my little pea brain.

"Sam; do you still have the grey buzzer? the one that only had continuaty and z with 2 d cells.any chance you'd part with it?"

Jim -

I'll look for it in the dreaded basement. If I still have it, it's yours.

Sam

Me three!

I really like putting in the exact number of PP ports, as there are jacks, as opposed to buying a 48 port patch panel, when the customer has 37 data runs. Inevitably a service call is : "I plugged into port 41 on the patch panel, but my jack isn't active"...

But in the end, the blanked out patch panels are too much of a pain.

Part of the speed of using the "Data Lights" is testing after IDing.

We use the Siemon STM-8. It's fast, and reveals any wiring errors, including split pairs.

Here's a simple switch box. It contains 2-AAA batteries to light up the Data Lite, and a switch to go from the batteries to the test dongle. With 3 patch cords, you send a guy up to the wall jack. Plug in all three cords (for a 3-plex). Put the switch in the first position, the 1st light comes on at the patch panel. Radio him the number from the panel, he switched to the 2nd position and starts inputting the label. At the same time, the testing dongle is now connected to the 1st jack and the 2nd jack is lit up for ID. You start testing the 1st one at the patch panel and radio him the 2nd number. When the test is done, the switch goes to the 3rd position, the 2nd is ready for testing, the 3rd is ready for IDing. After testing, the switch goes back to the 1st position, so the 3rd is ready for testing. By this time, the roving guy has the label done, and pasted to the faceplate. The switch box is ready to go to the next wall jack.



Seriously, we can ID, test, and label 30 to 40 3-plex wall plates in an hour!

Do you have information on where to get one of those?

Siemon STM-8 is a good tool for quick testing. It doesn't really certify anything and doesn't save test results. Basically a line map. Around $250 or so.

Sorry guys, but I'm totally with Hal and Skip on this one.

Sure it would be nice if V & D numbers matched. But all too often (and shortly after the job is finished and perfect) some guy comes along that needs an extra jack. Oh no! Now my numbering scheme is screwed up. I must now wring my hands during the day and toss and turn in my sleep at night.

From a blueprint perspective, it's really cool to be able to say, "There's 15V&D, next is 16, that's 17...see how we did it? We followed the cubicle space in order." In the end, no one but you can stand in the center of an office space and blindly point out the voice and data jack numbers. It's a neat trick, but you'll have forgotten the order by the end of your next two or three wiring jobs.

And really, what happens when someone suddenly decides to move to another work area? They call their IT department and, as instructed, lean over and report back the jack number under the desk. The IT person makes the appropriate patch and it's all done. And nobody cared that Karen's new desk was labeled V&D #72, yet her neighbor Sam uses #34.

Concentrate on making it look nice in the telco/data room; it may be one of the few showcase areas for the company's tourists and perspective customers. If you can make the station side line up in order, that's cool, but it's not nearly the end of the world if they don't. I am fastidious about many things, but this isn't one of them.

Cable in sequins if you must (show your girly side), but it's not necessary to cable in sequence.

a lot of customers don't need the cable certified they just want it to work

the STM-8 will verify that cabling is correct and often thats all thats needed

I have always cabled in sequence. My experience is that maps get lost. Make 10 copies, it still doesn't matter. Most offices like the big l-shaped desks that you can't get behind. If I can walk into tthe office to the left and see jack number 16 and the office to the right and see number 18, I can assume the middle one is 17. Some of the companies I used to work for did the random numbering and I got them converted. If you label as you go and put the cables into bundles of 24 it really does not take that much more time once you get used to it. Also, if you have to certify the cables the test results look much better if you can test them in order.

I will add a slightly different angle on the "prelabeling" of cable runs. We are in the process of finishing a data center in which both ends of the cable lands on a patch panel. In my opinion it was not really an option not to prelabel the cables before pulling in to place. We just keep them in groups of six to keep it orderly.

On our general cable jobs we also try to start with a numbered print, full well knowing when it is all said and done that the numbers will skewed by the time we finish.

From a professional standpoint I would never accept a job where the V and D jacks had numbers that were not sequential. I hope nobodies egos get hurt here but when I see comments that support sloppy, nonsequential, weird numbered faceplates, it makes me think of the guys who do this job that have no pride in it. The noob cabler, the too old lineman whos running cable still or the company who just burns and turns jobs and has no kind of quality control.

Any sparky can run cable and have it terminated in any order. Its our professionalism and attention to detail that should seperate us from them. Spend the extra minute, label the cables before pulling and terminate in order. Dress them in order and everything looks so much better and easier to work on.

Well, I cannot help but ask the obvious: Exactly whom is paying for these extra "minutes" in an extremely competitive environment where everyone and his brother is a cabling expert? Like I said earlier in this thread, I too like the numbers to match, but doing so is very expensive.

Let's take this "perfect world" scenario:

So, we go bouncing into Mr. Customer's new office build out and run twelve dual voice/data cable runs, everything matches, all numbers are perfect and the customer is happy. Two months later, Mr. Customer is expanding and needs three data runs for network printers in various places, two voice cables for fax machines in other various places and yet two more voice cables for a courtesy phone and an RJ31X. Should we tell Mr. Customer that he's going to have to pay for dual cable runs at all of these locations to keep our perfect cable numbering plan in effect? I'll bet that he won't agree with you if you even have the nerve to think like that.

There goes that perfect-world scenario completely out the window!

Sure, on a routine little job, say with a dozen pair of cables, that should be easy to accommodate. The key is being able to get the job done in one visit or at least by the same installers. This is not always an option.....Small jobs? Probably, but on larger jobs? It isn't always quite so simple:

The cables must be identified from the minute they are pulled from the reel and this marking must continue to flow throughout the project from the cradle to the grave. I don't know about you, but I don't have the luxury of always keeping the same installers on a given job. I can have four people on a job one day and a different four the next day. It's difficult to manage the logistics of multiple projects, traffic issues, people calling in sick, vacations, inspector issues and construction schedule changes.

Now back to the perfect world contractor, with one job a week and two employees, keeping everything uniform would be a piece of cake. Those extra "minutes" are in the bank, or so one would think:

The bean counter or cheap customer doesn't care about your level of quality or matching jack numbers. If someone else can beat your price by a few extra "minutes", they will get the job. If you are lucky, the customer will let you beat the competition's estimate of "minutes" in price to get the job. So then what happens? Do you lower your quality standards by mixing up the V/D numbering, do you maintain them and pay for those extra "minutes" out of your own pocket as a loss or do you just pass on the job?

I caught a bunch of lip from a customer recently because we didn't mark the pairs on the blocks for their appropriate assignments. My response to her was that a professional would know what they are doing and would not require these markings. The same holds true with jack numbering: Anyone who truly knows what they are doing won't have a problem with them not being paired or sequential. It is those people who truly don't know what they are doing that have the problems.

Hey, I'm sure that the telcos would love to have dedicated pairs assigned to every one of their customers, consecutively in order by street address with phone numbers similarly-assigned. Imagine that: 4365 Orange Street has the phone number XXX-4365 on cable pair 4365! That never did and never will exist for obvious reasons.

Again, I prefer voice and data jack numbers to be paired whenever logistically possible. At the same time, professionals do not need to have such simplistic architecture in place to be able to do their jobs.

Oh and yes, P. Alger, you did offend someone with your comments but it is OK. I hope that I didn't offend anyone with my soap box rant about this subject.

We always label as we pull. I throw a fit when my guys have V1 with D13 on the same wall plate.

its what isn't seen that separates us from "any sparky "

"any sparky "can put the cables in order on each end , the "attention to details " that matter are how the jacks and patch panels are terminated and how the cable has been run .

sequential or not has nothing to do with performance the attention to the details that matter do .


as Ed pointed out there will be add's often before the move in.

do you re-number ?

charge the customer or eat the cost ?

or wind up with "nonsequential, weird numbered faceplates, " ?

We always put our jacks in order but what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense. As far as V&D on the same plate being the same numbers even we can't do that. All installations will have a different number of voice and data jacks. Wall phones obviously will not have an accompanying data jack, printers for instance will have no voice jack. When you consider adds and moves later on any sequence goes out the window.

We were even crazy enough to keep our voice jack and extension numbers the same but that rarely lasted more than a few weeks. We still start our voice jack numbering at 10 though.

-Hal

It doesn't matter to me if it's a 15 drop install or a 150 drop install, at least at the initial install all the cables will be in order.

I don't have a problem with anyone that does it the other way. I have worked for many companies that let the numbers fall where they may. Being a small shop I have the extra time to do it my way.

I agree that once the next new cable gets installed, the numbering scheme goes out the window. When that occurs, you just have to pick up with the next number in the order and go with it. Re-labeling would not be an option unless the customer was really 'anal' about it, and wants to foot the bill for it.

I guess I was looking at this wrong on my first read and comment. Just to clarify myself I label everything as I pull it and terminate in order. I have very rarely had a job where the v and d numbers were the same and if they were it wasn't for very long. I guess what it comes down to for me if you have say a long wall that may have cubicles along it and all the jacks are in the wall plate, that the numbers are sequential. First one may be v1 and d1 and d2 but if you keep this going down the line next plate v2 d3 and d4 if at leasts gives somebody coming in behind me an idea of where to look when they need to track down a jack. It could even be me and I just don't remember how I did it in the beginning but the numbers has a sequence I can narrow it down.

So keeping the same numbers on wallplates not a priority for me but the sequence is more important to me.

Thats my feeling as well.

I'm in agreement here. We always us the 'shotgun' approach when roughing in the cables. It is way faster than trying to keep track of tagging them as you go, especially when you're pulling 6 - 8 runs at once.

Sending one man to do a two-man job is poor time management.

I always number my cables with a sharpie, then number the boxes accordingly. Make whatever pulls are necessary to complete the job and start terminating. Generally most of my customers here have fairly extensive labeling schemes. An example would be A1W-100 (a building, 1st floor, west idf, number 100) a typical in these buildings are 1 voice and 2 data. Generally the voice and data 1 are a match in every single situation, the second data is labeled but it is not terribly important what the number is as long as it is marked on the floor prints.
On brand new installations I follow the same principal, always have cables numbered on both ends, with voice matching data and additional data out of sequence.
I have always found that when pulling bulk cable in any situation it is a lot faster to terminate and test when you know which cable goes where. If a toner gets used on one of my jobs someone is catching hell because he didn't label a cable.
Every voice cable is tested with a mod tap, every data certified with either my agilent wirescope 350 or whatever instrument the customer requires and provides (default is always the agilent).
I have found that it is immensely faster to know what your station numbers and port numbers are when testing. Toning is slow at best and wastes significant amounts of time. I can see if you are pulling two cables and don't have a sharpie handy how toning would work just fine, but from my experience if you have a sharpie (and you should) just put a one and two on them and go for it!
Even with OSP there are binders telling you which pair number you are dealing with, nothing random there either.

A good alternative to repulling things or totally relabeling if the customer has a problem with one data on a jack being out of sequence is to just relabel the jacks as A1W-100D1 and A1W-100D2, but most of my customers would not want to mess with the status quo in that situation since there are upwards of 2500 data and 1400 voice on each floor in the buildings that I service.

If you take the time to set up the job prior to just banging away with punch tool and letting things fall where they may you would be surprised how fast it actually is. Setup is everything in my opinion, doesn't matter where you are working, manholes, IDF's, MPOE's.....if you don't take the time to set it up it will take longer and look worse.

DING, DING, DING! Give that man a seegar! One thing that nobody seems to have mentioned, If you mark/label all runs BEFORE you pull the cable, it only takes ONE GUY!!!!!! If you REALLY like toning cables, you can do that when you are checking your work. And when you don't have to tone and search, it only takes ONE GUY!!!! Oops, repititious! And if you are checking work, it takes 2 guys less time than; Terminate jack, plug in toner, wait for IDF guy to signal he found it, unplug toner, go to next unlabeled dangling cable, terminate and connect toner, wait for IDF guy.................. etc, etc, etc. Roaming jack terminator waits for IDF guy, IDF guy waits for roaming jack terminator. Times-a-wastin'! Obviously, care and accuracy in marking the cables IS necessary, but if you can't do that, you shouldn't be in this business! John C.

well lightninghorse, the few jobs i have cabled from top to bottom thats what i did as well, number my cable boxes and pull, no toning was needed and it worked out 99.999999% of the time

I always mark as I go with rite-on lables. They show up good and you spot where your lable is and is easy to seperate. I mark up my print locations then start with the longest pulls and it maybe (103 or whatever)take 5 min and seperate and move on to the next. I only use my intel-tone pro 200 when trouble shooting or had two diffrent people labling and have dobles. As far as add-ons we and our POC's know as we add there is going to be spots that dont go in order. But 95% will be.


James T. Dobson
Dobson Network Cabling
Hampton,Va

For as long as I have done this I have marked with a sharpie on the box and the wire. when I cut the wire I make the mark. I insist the guys that work for me do the same. IMHO I think running around using a toner to track the wires down is unprofessional. Taking an hour and marking a plan and putting it on the wall next to the boxes of wire is time well spent. Just my opinion.

For as long as I have done this I have marked with a sharpie on the box and the wire.

I keep hearing this. Hopefully you use a box of wire for more than one run and even more than one job. You must run out of room to write numbers on that box pretty quickly.

-Hal

My head installer has done this, too---he writes on the cable, and writes on the box. He's been doing it this way for almost 40 years. He also works with a plan on the bigger jobs and marks the floor plan. He gets a bit testy when someone wants to do it another way.

When they come back and unload boxes---it's my job to write on the boxes how many feet are left. Anything less than 100 feet is taken to the shop to be made into whips.

We haven't run out of room on the front of the box, yet.

Phones, cable and ports are tested when we jack, punchdown, jumper and plug in the phones. Network cables are tested with a cable tester after we jack, and punch down in the rack.

There are probably better ways to do this---but we do all of this stuff by rote, now---and we don't have to really talk too much to each other about what to do & how to do it. We just do it.

That's what I am talking about JW. We did a 300 run job this summer with a newbie, and two others in 3 weeks. We knew where every wire was to go before we stepped into the building. We still made money and the job went as planned.

Hal-
yeah we will run many cables at a time. In out last job we pulled 12 at a time. All labeled with a printed label on the end that we pulled and then when we cut it we put the label on it. So the label was on it at both ends. This job was for a real good customer that is big in this area and we wanted to do it by the book for them. Everyone does it differently, I personally want to have a sequential numbering in my work. Maybe its just me?

I personally want to have a sequential numbering in my work. Maybe its just me?

No, not just you. I do it too.

-Hal

I have worked with some of the cabling guys here at UT. What they do is just number the cables as they pull them, then terminate the jacks and panels. They use a fancy Fluke tester to check everything, and then they put pre-printed labels on the jack and patch panel end. That's how it is supposed to work, anyway

lets see you have 1000ft box and most of your runs lets say are 50ft (not often) thats only 20 lables.you have 4 sides to that box you will run out of cable before you run out of space to write on.

I too mark both ends of the cable with sharpie,On the box I put the cable number and the footage, so I can just glance at the boxes to see which one's I'll use for the next pull, I start at the front desk and number the cables clok wise around the space/office. Someone gives me a cable/jack number I can tell right where it's located.

For better or worse, the way I've done it: I run the wire then tone it out and mark it once the wallplates are trimmed out.

Every time I've marked the wire as it was pulled, some painter with a spraygun comes into the phone/data closet and sprays my wire, rendering my sharpie markings useless. If it isn't that, it's a numbering change on the floorplan ("Hey, 13 is unlucky: let's eliminate that room!" or "odd number rooms are now on the front of the building, not the back", or my favorite: "We've changed hotel brands, and they have a new room numbering scheme".), so all the print numbers get thrown off.

I suppose wrapping a trash bag around all of wiring would prevent some of the aformentioned problems.

Even if no one else destroys the wire marking, trying to find a number written on the side of a cat5e wire when there are anywhere from 50-300 wires in a (usually poorly lit) closet is super time consuming - especially as bad as my writing can be. Smudged marking is another problem. I've been using those 4" write on tie wraps recently (not installed too tightly).

If there is a phone/data closet every floor, especially if it's near the middle of the hallway, then toning/marking with one man is no biggie. Riser systems where everything is home run to the PBX room is a two man job w/ walkie-talkies.

Toning also lets me find shorts, opens and reverse wired jacks (i.e., phone line on a 8p8c) as well as do a qc check on the wallplates for level, tightness and gaps (and paint on them).

I like all of the different ways you guys have posted - I'm going to try to incorporate some of those methods into the way I run wire and label.

Question: doesn't putting at least all of the phone lines in numerical order make it easier to make the jumps on a 110 block when using 25-50-100 pair cable?

Quote from Fletch:

Question: doesn't putting at least all of the phone lines in numerical order make it easier to make the jumps on a 110 block when using 25-50-100 pair cable?

We have told you and told you..... NO 110 BLOCKS FOR VOICE !!!

Please look at this thread and you will see why to NOT use 110/Nordes/BIX (okay if you are in Canuckastan) ... 66 blocks is the way.

It'll take you more time than it's worth. What are you going to do the next time a line gets added....move all subsequent numbers down one pin plus their X-Connects? Ridiculous!

And for Ken...stick it in your ear....From Canuckistan with love...

If for whatever reason, you are pulling large quantities of CAT5E for voice, then using 110 blocks is the only way unless you want to spend a lot of time untwisting cables.

.......and here we go again....why Cat 5 or above for voice so why 110? Please see the referenced thread.

Davey....CTUB to you, too

Did I hear someone mention CAT5 for voice?

-Hal

Oh no, not even 10 posts in and I'm about to get hammered! Good thing you guys are experts in all things phone related and not masons.

Thanks for the link, Ken. I'll take a more thorough look through it later tonight. I think the primary reason we use 110 blocks for voice is space constraints, which are always a concern.

Dave: in hotels anyway, added phone lines are rare above the 1st floor - most, if not all, of the space is for guest rooms. We run extra wire to places that often require future upgrades, such as the front desk, GM's office, conference rooms and so on. Any lines added last minute or after the fact would go where there is space for them.

bfdatacom and Ken: yeah, we do pull cat5e for voice. Why, I have no idea - maybe it's for "future-proofing", maybe the boss man gets a great deal on it. Cat5e seems overkill to me, but at this point it's his call, not mine.

Hal: I swear I didn't mention cat5e for voice. I swear I didn't mention cat5e for voice...

I don't want to get too off topic here with my replies.

Fletch....you are catching on....wanna go get Hal a #6 wire stretcher? :shrug:

If you live a two-dimensional life, that's probably true. We who live in three dimensions have boxes with six sides.

Good thing you guys are experts in all things phone related and not masons.

Hey, we don't do such a bad job with concrete. The last IT "profesional" who came around here insisting that CAT5 should always be used for voice- well lets just say now part of something bigger.

-Hal

Sure. I think it's in my toolbox right next to my left-handed conduit reamer.

I'd rather not be part of a building or give new meaning to "keystone Jack". I'm no IT pro: aren't all of those guys are on the geek squad at Best Buy?

I meant what I wrote about many of you being experts. Many of the pictures of the work done by forum members are really quite spectacular in my eyes. I found this place numerous times by asking questions on search engines.

The only thing I insist on is that I get paid on time and in full.

It's a Sicilian message. It means CG sleeps with the fishes.

Sorry, I took "Lines" as xxx-xxxx, yyy-yyyy, NOT home runs from the jacks. Home runs, YES, Lines NO.

Unfortunately, many of them were so stupid they were kicked out of there and are out in the field.

Those pictures are TAKEN by forum members, hopefully not work DONE by members.

Fletcher has a good point and maybe the only exception to "don't use CAT5 or 110 for voice". Like it or not, if you do hotels you're going to break your own rule and use CAT5e and CAT5e compliant blocks for all the cabling. Their standards are set by Corporate Brand IT wonks, some of whom are now even requiring CAT6 for new construction. (Any guesses why? Yep, the Holy Grail of VoIP)

I still do my equipment cutdown on 66 blocks so I have a test point in the circuit but from there on it has to be 110 or CAT5e 66 blocks with the twist right up to the stitches.

Hal, concrete shoes, right?

I have installed a bunch of predictive dialers..each agent has a voice connection and a pc. The IP of the pc has to match the voice number and the data number and the service observing number...Under those conditions you terminate either end out of order and you are really screwed. You will end up with a voice call not matching with the screen info and that really ticks off a telemarketing phone room manager. In other words we always label first and make sure cube one is voice 01 and data 01 and service observing position 01 and the pc's ip ends in .xx1 as well. Its our job to make it as easy for the Room Supervisor as possible.

Any guesses why? Yep, the Holy Grail of VoIP

Ya know, it's funny but if you look at VoIP systems, a separate VLAN like what you would have in a hotel would only have to be CAT3. The Avaya IPO phones will work fine with CAT3, it's only when you put voice on the data network will CAT5 or higher be required, and that's because of the data.

-Hal

Okay, all the jacks are in and labeled anally in order. They even go in clock-wise direction around the office so you can count out what jack is in what office without even looking. Two weeks later, you add 4 cables in 3 different locations. So, do we just throw our arms up in disgust because the customer doesn't understand that what they want will throw our number scheme out the window? Do we charge the customer extra to re-label all of the jacks? I guess we should have left big 'holes' in the numbering plan to be able to make sure we never have a different voice cable number than a data cable in the same jack plate under any circumstance. I guess I'm only going to wire jobs that have only equal amounts of voice and data wire so all will be even.

Sorry for the rant, I think we can get 3 pages on this subject. After all, numbering labels is one of my biggest worries these days. :bang:

I always wrote up a floorplan first. All dual jacks (V&D) were numbered first in order. Then came the oddballs - fax machines, printers, modems etc. After the original install, stuff just went in with whatever numbers were available.

Some places add stuff daily, some never. I do the best job I can as defined by the SOW or, lacking one, as I see fit. After the install, it just goes as it goes - neat, clean, labeled - and out of sequence.

Sam