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In St. Petersburg (Pinellas county) you are not required to be licensed if the cabling is for communications, controls, or automation. So what this means is everyone down here can pull cable. That's where most of my business comes from, fixing other people's mess.
You also dont need a low-voltage license for alarm/etc if the job is priced (reasonably) under $1000.
Unless they are in the process of ammending it, LAN/Telecom/CCTV/etc are defined in the Florida Status under Low-Voltage Exemption.
The florida state statue is Title 32 Chapter 489 Statue 503 Section 14A and 14B. Or 489.503(14a)
Unfortunately that means all that is REALLY needed to start charging people for faulty work around here is a magnetic sticker that says "We Run Cables!".
Depressing ain't it?
Atleast it's not as bad as the Data/IT side of things. Where if there are any certifications it's all third-party and 90% of it is not based on competancy. I mean, come on, how much use is a A+ or an MCSP. That just means they know what a CPU is and how to install Windows XP Home. Not to mention all the BS non-vendor cert's floating around.
In California, you are required to get a C-7 license for low voltage contracting. It is regulated by the Contractor's State License Board and overseen by the Department of Consumer Affairs.
I'm in Maryland (Frederick County) and we have to have them. I'm not sure of how many contractors have them but the ones that don't will get caught. The inspectors here are ruthless.
lol. Sounds like the same here in Georgia Firefighter. Seems they dont require a drivers license either the way people get away with crap.. I for see Geogia getting one when they realize lotto tickets arent making enough money. :bang:
As the great Bob once said, "Its a SWITCH its either OFF or its ON!"
Virginia, Maryland and DC all require state contractor's licenses. In addition, each town or county requires it's own license and permits. Some counties in Maryland require proof of continuing education credits in order to renew the license. Up until recently, DC only allowed licensed master electrical contractors to install low voltage wiring. They have now introduced a low-voltage license option.
The state of florida (dont know about your county/city/etc) defines an electrical license as a person who is licensed to install, design, maintain, etc a power Distribution system. They key word is distribution. Therefore Telecom, Datacom, and some forms of automation are exempt because they are not systems used for distributing power but for signalling other devices.
Florida Statue 489.503(14a) says that if the job has a fair market value of less then $1000, you do not need a low-voltage license. This applies to alarm cabling and the like under 77 volts.
Florida Statue 489.503(14b) further ammends the exemption list for networks used for signalling and communications, and for which their sole purpose or design is not power distribution. So unless your doing alarm installs in florida, you technically dont need a license.
Licensing only makes you liable to best practices and standards as set forth by the state.
You still need to look into some sort of bonding/insurance for liability. Licensed or not, you are still liable for damages you may cause. And that's assuming you are working the job solo. Employee's are a sure-fire way to get sued. Just imagine the fun you'd have if some guy fell out of the cieling, crashed into the datacenter, and was hospitalized. Lots of money would flow then.
Currently in Idaho there is no licensing requirement. However, that is about to change. They have been holding meetings and hearings about instituting a requirement.
It's hard to believe PA. is one of the few states that is'nt regulated. Everything else is.(Permit and tax capital of the world) I still do each job up to spec's.
Not being required to have a license is no excuse to do a crappy job.
In Florida some county's/city's require a license. Local ordinance supercedes county and county supercedes state codes. The state sets a base standard and the city's and county's create their policy's from that. In NE Fl you do not have to get a permit or have a license to pull data or voice cable. There are some county's in central and south Florida that require a license and a permit.
There are no licenses as such for any wiring work here in England, either LV/telecom/data or power.
New rules were introduced a couple of years ago about the inspection of electrical work carried out in domestic properties, but that's as far as it goes.
Suffolk County, New York requires a "restricted electrican" license for any work under 90 volts.
There is no enforcement of this requirement. Unlicensed contractors continue to work in a county that has a population of 1.5 million but only has two electrical licensing inspectors.
License requires 3 years' experience, and a written and practical test, or former Bell System, or derivative, experience and no test. Licensee must demonstrate liabilty insurance in the amount $500,000, naming the county as a co-insured party.
They seem to ignore the fact that -48 talk plus ~105 ringing = -153 volts.
No license is required if the contract is being performed for any government entity.
Arthur P. Bloom "30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"
California requires a license, C7, for any job exceeding 700.00 in value. And they police it tightly. Licensed C7s are encouraged to drop a dime on any unlicensed contractors. The fine is steep and usually involves more money than the project was worth. A C7 I know was once turned in by another C7 who thought he was turning in an unlicensed contractor. I can understand the antipathy when you play by the rules and somebody takes your business from you. I don't have a C7 yet, but when I do cabling, it is undert the company of a licensed C7. He gets a hefty percentage but he carries the insurance too. Actually getting my C7 would take a weekend of study and then the test. Not a big deal.
Wow, I sure wish licensing was actually enforced here. The only people enforcing license and permit requirements are the general contractors on the job site. Forget about the little jobs where there is no GC. Sometimes I feel like an idiot for pulling a permit on a small job, but hey, it's the law and I have to do it. I frequently lose sales due to the permit cost that affects my company's sale price.
We have a boatload of local license requirements for every town, city or state that we service in this area. We are required to post license numbers on our vehicles and proposals, but most of our competition does not meet these requirements.
I can honestly say that I have never seen a competitor's vehicle or proposal that has their license number(s) posted. On vehicles, 2" letters are required, but none have them. I'll be the dumb aXX doing a job without a permit that gets busted because of the license numbers posted on the van. I can't do anything about this situation since when calling the appropriate agencies, all that I ever get is a receptionist who is more interested in fighting with her baby's daddy on the other line.
The reality is that all of our local jurisdictions care about is the revenue from license and permit fees. I have even received phone calls from inspectors asking me if they really need to come by to check our work or if they can trust me. It's all about money in these parts.
Ed--It's all about money here in Georgia too. I've been licensed since 1989 for LV, but have never been required to do any type of update courses, continuing ed, or even had a customer or inspector ask if I am licensed. As long as I send in my fees, I'm good to go. Kinda bites, don't it?
Originally posted by ev607797: The reality is that all of our local jurisdictions care about is the revenue from license and permit fees.
Bingo. As you know Ed, that's exactly the feeling which is prevailing over here about the new requirements (Building Regulations, Part P) for residential power. Especially in those areas where the councils are illegally saying that people must not only pay the official permit fee but then pay somebody else to actually inspect and just forward the certificate.
I live in Wisconsin, we do not need any thing here. However I did a job in Minnesota, and found out after the fact that I was support to a low voltage license. Nothing ever came of it though.
In reading the Hall Of Shame posts on another part of this fine forum, it occurs to me that perhaps licensing is the way to eliminate at least a few of the deadbeats. In my county, even though enforcement is nil, a complaint gets attention, and licenses are pulled for reasons of fraud, etc.
I like HOS as much as I like to read the "Armed Citizen" column in the NRA magazine. There's probably something wrong with me.
Arthur P. Bloom "30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"
Member Rated: posted 02 August, 2007 18:25 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- California requires a license, C7, for any job exceeding 700.00 in value. And they police it tightly. Licensed C7s are encouraged to drop a dime on any unlicensed contractors. The fine is steep and usually involves more money than the project was worth. A C7 I know was once turned in by another C7 who thought he was turning in an unlicensed contractor. I can understand the antipathy when you play by the rules and somebody takes your business from you. I don't have a C7 yet, but when I do cabling, it is undert the company of a licensed C7. He gets a hefty percentage but he carries the insurance too. Actually getting my C7 would take a weekend of study and then the test. Not a big deal.
In California it's actually any job exceeding $400. and also states that a job cannot be broken up in to smaller portions in an attempt to qualify the $400. rule. To qualify for the licence you must have a licensenced contrator sign and vouch that the applicant has the skills and at least 4 years experience in the trade. :read:
Trying to recall, I believe it was Wyoming where the company I worked for in KS almost got our butts in jail, until we found a local that would 'subsidize' his license for several bills!
And, we had heard so much baaaad news about UT permits and inspectors, we just subbed out those jobs to locals. Then go by and check the results and clean up the mess, as necessary. John C.
When I was young, I was Liberal. As I aged and wised up, I became Conservative. Now that I'm old, I have settled on Curmudgeon.
A few counties in the Atlanta metro area will require a low-voltage licensed contracted pull a permit, then the wiring is subject to building inspection to get a cert of occupancy.
Once the C.of Oc. is acquired, anyone can show up and pull cables in the building.
The requirements might be dollar value based, but, after the initial inspections, nobody questions the phone guys.
only prob I have with the low volt license requirement is having to know all the tax codes and workers comp laws. Has nothing to do with wiring, but, definitely has to do with meeting state requiremnts.
What is sad is that some of the best installers/cable runners we've known have never been licensed. In Washington State, if you are a telecom administrator I believe you can use just about anyone, however the company itself is responsible for the work being up to par, getting inspections, etc.
To LaneComm of FL, with all due respects, I am an electrical engineer and a state of FL license contractor, the general rule is anything that transfer electric must be permitted. This rule comes from the Florida Electrical board. The purpose is to protect the public from poor work. Now with that in mind most low voltage is done with out a permit. All new construction will have a permit and therefore the low voltage will be permitted. EC001101
In New York State, no license is required. Perhaps there shoud be one. I have seen some very nasty wiring in my region for years. I am astounded that they get paid for the work. It's so bad sometimes, I once saw some idiot swing the thermostat wire to dial tone with dial tone ending up at the thermostat. When I saw that, I broke up laughing. Go figure!
Al Dukes :banana: :banana:
"Let Everything Be Done Decently and In Order" 1 Corinthians 14:40
Nor is there a master electrician's license required by NY State. The licenses are issued on a county-by-county basis. A low-voltage license is required in Suffolk County. (See my post above.)
Arthur P. Bloom "30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"
In Louisiana you need a lisence to install security and fire alarm. Under the securty is CCTV, Door openers and the like. You even have to have a lisence to install fire calk. This was done to help get rid of the folks that worked out of the back of their trucks, it helped some with quality and safety. It also put some good small time companies out of the business. There is no requirements for other low voltage cableing. Consumers should check out companies or indivuals before they do business with them.
PMCOOK, careful, careful. Just because you are doing work under a licensed contractor and giving him a hefty percentage does not sit well with the CSLB. I'm not bashing you because we all had to start with a crawl at one time. Just be careful what you say and whom you say it to.
South Dakota as backwards as we are doesn't have low voltage licensing however I am a electrician and meetings and classes come up where people of importance (insert laughter here) say that the day is coming. I do know that Wyoming has requirements including sat tv or sat internet which I have done a few of. From what I have heard from a couple people who do work in wyo as apprentices is that the low voltage test is basically the same as their journyman elec test. Not that its the same exact thing but its based on the NEC book.
Oh my goodness how quickly old posts get dragged back up. Let's try to keep an eye on the original posting date before tagging onto a months-old thread. If you have a similar topic to discuss, feel free to start a new thread. In doing this, you'll keep the subject matter and the attendees up to date. Thanks!
If this is a problem, how about locking a thread after a certain number of months? New threaders could reference the old thread in the new one, if necessary.
Arthur P. Bloom "30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"
From my understanding you have to be licenced to run network cable as of recently but with the huge building boom its very difficult to enforce or mabey it is not enforced. I am very busy doing alot of cable installation ect and do not have my licence as well as my supervisor. I think my supervisor would need to get his but you are required to take classes here and then pass a test to obtain one. If anyone here is from BC perhaps you can clear this up? The LV licence has not prevent us from doing a good quality service for some of our bigger clients.
My only gripe that I have is that no one I mean almost no one uses raceways or J-hooks to create a common path for the cables to be layed.
I like neetness it just looks like crap when a tech pulls down ceiling tiles and all the wiring is spread out in every direction and looks like a spiders web.
I imagine two of the key factors in why a licence is needed is to make sure the cable is not next to any high electrical cabeling and not to many are stacked in one place? I keep my cable away from anything that posses a electrical path from HT lines.
IN Florida there is a required license for low voltage installations and they are.
So KUMBA You need education on the laws of Florida
EF - An "alarm system contractor I" means an alarm system contractor whose business includes all types of alarm systems for all purposes.
EG - An "alarm system contractor II" means an alarm system contractor whose business includes all types of alarm systems other than fire, for all purposes.
EY (EH)* - A "registered alarm system contractor I" means an alarm system contractor whose business includes all types of alarm systems for all purposes. A registered "alarm system contractor I" may contract only in the cities and/or counties for which his or her registration is issued. *EY and EZ are the alpha letters currently being used. No new licenses are issued with EH and EI, however old licenses with these designation can be renewed.
EZ (EI)* - A "registered alarm system contractor II" means an alarm system contractor whose business includes all types of alarm systems, other than fire, for all purposes. A "registered alarm system contractor II" may contract only in the cities and/or counties for which his or her registration is issued. *EY and EZ are the alpha letters currently being used. No new licenses are issued with EH and EI, however old licenses with these designations can be renewed.
EJ - A "registered residential alarm system contractor" means an alarm system contractor whose business is limited to burglar alarm systems in single-family residential, quadruplex housing, and mobile homes of a residential occupancy class. A "registered residential alarm system contractor" may contract only in the cities and/or counties for which his or her registration is issued.
ER - A "registered electrical contractor" means an electrical contractor who has registered with the department pursuant to fulfilling the competency requirements in the jurisdiction for which the registration is issued. A "registered electrical contractor" may contract for electrical systems, including all specialty categories, only in the cities and/or counties for which his or her registration is issued. A "registered electrical contractor" MAY NOT contract for any alarm system.
ES - A "specialty contractor" means a contractor whose scope of practice is limited to a specific segment of electrical or alarm system contracting, including, but not limited to: elevator specialist (class code 066), utility line electrical specialist (class code 068), low voltage system specialist (class code 069), residential electrical contracting (class code 043), maintenance of electrical fixtures (class code 065), and fabrication, erection, installation, and maintenance of electrical advertising signs (class code 067).
ET - A "registered electrical specialty contractor" elevator specialist (class code 066), utility line electrical specialist (class code 068), low voltage system specialist (class code 069), residential electrical contracting (class code 043), maintenance of electrical fixtures (class code 065), and fabrication, erection, installation, and maintenance of electrical advertising signs (class code 067). A "registered electrical specialty contractor" may contract only in the cities and/or counties for which his or her registration is issued.
I haven't done any house cabling since about a week after that post. Primarily for 4 reasons: 1) I don't feel like working for an EC for 3 years just to qualify to sit for the test; 2) My time is worth more when spent configuring asterisk and cleaning up after their in-house IT staff; 3) I know enough qualified people who can use the work more then I can and therefore would rather help them help me; 4) I'm fat, I hate hanging from the top of ladders, and it's freakin' HOT in them there overheads!
But, to add a relevant reply, it still depends on your area. The state of Florida delegates authority to the county, city, etc. This means that if your county doesn't require the license, and the city doesn't require the license it's an open market for all the cable ninjas. The morale of the story here: Go find your local friendly building inspector and ask him. If anyone should know about licensing requirements it would be him.
Pinellas county does require a license (I had made an incorrect interpretation of some of their county/city statues in the earlier posts). Some counties and cities in southwest Florida don't. Some area's in the panhandle don't. I still get about one call a week from various people asking me if I know if city X in county Y requires it. All I can tell them it to call the city and county's perspective organizations and see. Even then, you're lucky if the person who issues the licenses even knows what you are talking about.
In the Peoples Socialist Republic of New Jersey you are supposed to get a Low Voltage Licence from the state electrical board, there is No test of experence or compitence just send the forms in with the $$$$ and they send you the Licence. In the Last 5 yrs I have only been asked once by a building owner to show this Low voltage licence. What a Joke.........
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