atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Computers & Programming Computers, Software, Accessories Windows Vista "Broken by Design"

https://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit042.html

Interesting.

HEy Mark so if I wanted a vista machine to run my quick books would I just be totally crazy to do such a thing. THank you for posting that i am very worried about my next computer.

Somebody tell me what the hell is going on here. Does the RIAA, MPAA and Sony run this country? I am all for protecting the rights of performers and artists but this DRM crap is getting out of hand.

First they sued half of the teenagers and their parents and bullied money out of them. Then they put a trojan on their CDs and got their a** kicked for that. Now they have Microsoft and all electronics manufacturers redesigning their products around their crusade.

I was just looking at HD monitors from NEC. I see that every HDTV and monitor must be DRM complient because these Nazis are afraid someone is going to hijack their material between the computer, cable box, sat receiver or DVD player and the monitor. Basically, for copyrighted material the digital information on that HDMI cable is encoded. The source (computer, cable box, etc) encodes it and sends the key to the monitor to decode it. The monitor also must communicate back to the source.

I understand that this is already causing big problems with HDTVs that are only a year ot two old and not DRM complient. The source shuts down and you get no picture and no sound.

I say boycot the SOBs! Don't buy any new computers unless they give you XP. Let them stick Vista where it belongs- where the sun doesn't shine.

-Hal

Couldn't agree more Hal.

This has been told to be the greatest product every made. BS

This product is probably one of the biggest pains that computer techs will have to face in the future.

Jules The QB software will run on vista but you must upgrade to the newest version. As stated in the website.

I personally will not upgrade to this software for quite some time. If ever. This will probably be like the Melineum edition that lasted about 1 yr. before xp was released. Melineum was one of the worst windows ever and vista will probably be joining it.

Brian

Amen Hal, I completely agree. I posted in another spot and said it was like Microsoft was trying to make a monopoly out of the computer business.

Exactly why I am sticking with my 1997 machine with Windows 98SE as long as I can. It's not smart enough to even interact with any of that stuff. Weren't computers developed for business applications anyway? Why is it that all you can buy these days is "multimedia platforms"? They are so busy developing software to control what you CAN'T do.


I will have to resort to building my own systems soon so that I have some control over what I CAN do. An example is to be able to have a serial port or more, a parallel port and a slow modem for communicating with older phone systems.

I have to shut off McAfee on my old WIN 98 first edition box or it will take literally minutes for an application to open during which the mouse will almost stop working. I have to leave it running because it takes 10 minutes to load everything once McAfee loads.

McAfee is an example of "bloatware", it used to work great but each automatic upgrade was larger and larger and interfered with more and more.

I would like to uninstall it but its like a virus, uninstall from the control panel says it can't because it's still running and there is no apparent way to close it completely.

-Hal

I think there will be pros and cons to Vista. I have a buddy who is, IMHO, one of the smartest IT guys on the planet. He recently went to Vista with a new laptop, mainly because most new machines now will start coming with Vista, and he needed to know it. So far, I have heard only a couple of minor complaints. I will be installing Vista on a new laptop drive as soon as it gets here from Dell. I will let you guys know how it goes. I am more disappointed with the way they stripped down the office versions for 2007. The basic student edition doesn't even come with Outlook.

For you guys running Win98, I can't understand why you haven't went to XP. I run several machines all with XP, and no problems. I don't think Vista will be the bust that ME was....but the jury is still out on that one.

After reading this post I thought of Red Hat software. I thought it was a free operating system a couple of years ago but what I found today is definitely not free. Am I mistaken with the name? Is there a free OS out there that any of you know about?

I have never liked the idea of Microsoft having so much control over a computer that I OWN and it looks like they are trying to gain even more control. If I want to listen to a cd while I work it is none of MS's business.

Red Hat is a free software, but Red Hat free is no longer supported. Red Hat is now Fedora Core.

The only Red Hat that you'd have to pay for is Red Hat Boxed CD Set and the Red Hat Enterprise Edition. Otherwise, free-of-charge.

Check www.distrowatch.org.

For you guys running Win98, I can't understand why you haven't went to XP.

This machine is XP and on a network with the old WIN 98 box. I can't speak for Ed, but the reason I still keep the old WIN 98 is because it has software on it that either won't run properly on XP or there is no XP version available.

I have an old version of Peachtree that dates back to WIN 3.1. Many functions won't work under XP, things like scrolling and printing formats. It took a long time to come up to speed with that accounting software so I'm reluctant to change. It serves us well, and if it ain't broke I'm not going to fix it.

I also have old Avery label printing software that will not run at all on XP and is no longer available. They only offer templates and macros for Word. That does me no good if I have to redo every label I have.

-Hal

Ok so I am confused now what should I do is there any perfect laptop that i can run what I need to run to make it easier for when I am on the road.
Thanks Brian when ytou get a chance call me so we can brain storm this idea so I can get what i need next week.
Thanks guys

Jules,

the only issue your going to have with a new machine is whether Vista will support a certain version of a program. This is not new to OS applications. It has been going on for years. The main reason...money. I am not saying it is right, but the only reason software makers are in business is to make money. So if they made a product that worked universally in any OS ever invented, then they wouldn't be able to sell software after the market was saturated. Intuit is a prime example. Seems like I have to buy a major upgrade every few years to keep using the program. It's their way of keeping me sucked in of course. Compatability issues with Vista work both ways. Some of it is the way Microsoft changed the core, the other is Vendors who won't create a patch for existing software because they know we will be forced to buy a new version. If you want a new machine with out the hassles, then order from someone like Dell and get the machine with WinXP. All the machines will be Vista ready, and you can change when software and drivers become more mainstream.

Thanks topher. Will commercial software run on Fedora Core?

I also remembered Linspire but I don't know if it's worth buying.

I am very interested in trying a new OS out because I am building a new computer for my mom and I really don't want to put Visa on it.

Thanks Zman I appreciate your advice.

Texas,

Depends what you mean on 'commerical'. with linux, you can't use regular windows programs out-of-box. However, you can use a program called Wine to run win apps easily.

Or, you can install VMWare (free) and install a version of windows on it (any like xp) and open that in linux. So you can run win apps on windows inside a linux machine! Very nifty.

There are programs such as OpenOffice.org that allow you to get word processing and database spreadsheet systems. Sometimes works better than MS Word and such. Very nifty.

I adore RH Linux, and since fedora is a branch of RH, I have no problems with it.

If you have the Aztec or Azzuera(sp?) internal-built-in wireless system on a laptop, be prepared for it to not work right at install. Those systems need some configuration which anyone can really help you with.

However wireless cards for Linksys (G, B) have been perfected.

It just depends how much you're using it for.

Added: If going linux and want something similar to windows and such, install the KDE Graphical Desktop at install. When you install Fedora it will ask you whether you want Gnome or KDE. Go for the KDE.

I believe Linspire was the one that looked just like Windows. It's not free though. If you want to experiment with that, go ahead. But Fedora is a very wise choice.

Also, if you are running servers I recommend Linux RH or Fedora instead of Windows.

I don't normally do this, but I feel compelled to give my $0.02 worth.

These opinions are based on 20 years of computing and network experience, and I mean direct hands-on stuff.

Vista is the worst piece of bloated crap-ware ever to be foisted on an unsuspecting world, for its excessive DRM if nothing else. Treating your customers like criminals by default, especially at the whim of Hollywood, is no way to run any business.

Our Internet-exposed servers (I'm self-hosted) are all based on FreeBSD and open-source software such as Apache, Postfix, and others. This configuration will never change, simply because it is robust, secure, and it works well (unlike some software I could name).

I will NEVER, under ANY conditions, base an Internet-exposed server on any Windows package. Any workstation so based will be protected behind a hardware firewall, and have current antiviral and anti-spyware programs (and I don't mean crap-ware like McAfee or Symantec!)

Our workstations are all Windows 2000 Pro. They will not be "upgraded" to X(tra)P(ain) or Vista. Ever. There is no reason to do so, as everything currently works and I don't want to break it.

On the subject of XP: I absolutely refuse to beg Microcrap for a new "Product Activation" every time I want to make a hardware change. As long as software is legitimately purchased, it's none of their bloody business WHAT system I choose to run it on.

No system running XP or Vista will be allowed to be connected to any part of our internal LAN. Ever. I have plenty of other ways to test security if I want to, all of them far less potentially destructive.

Keep the peace(es).

While we are on the subject....

https://www.badvista.org

It is a "pro Linux" site, but it has a lot of good points about Vista's bad points. Mainly the fact that according to the EULA you never really own your copy of Vista, you license your right to run it or something to that affect and it can even restrict access to your own files. The info is on the site and I am not a lawyer, so read and enjoy.

Ugh! Windows is looking less and less promising by the minute!

Okay...I am not an employee of Microsoft by any means, but I think they get a bad rap sometimes. First, I have no problems with their product activation. So I have to call them to get it activated? No big deal. They have never given me grief, and if this keeps the cost down due to stopping piracy, then so be it. If you really want to talk activation hassles, talk to Symantec. Try activating one of their products after the number of activations runs out, and your screwed!! They won't even help you. I was told after having to load their product 3 times due to a bad hard drive that kept crashing, that I would have to purchase a new copy of the software, even though the original was only loaded on ONE machine, per the EULA. I was so pissed off at them, that I went with a new company for my virus protection, and it has been a good move. I can use their product on 5 seperate machines for the same cost of Norton. If you read most EULAs, Microsoft is no different than anyone else.

As far as security, sure they have issues, but 90% of the world uses them, so there are bound to be some issues.

I admire you guys who use Linux, but I have went that route, and frankly, don't have the time it takes to manage the OS. Linux will never be mainstream until it can find a way to act like windows. When it does, it will probably be subject to some of the same problems Windows has now.

Personally, I have run Windows XP since it came out, and I run it on several machines. I have never had any issues with crashes, security, or viruses, except those caused by my own errors.

Bottom line is use an OS that you are comfortable with and works for you. I am fine with Windows, since it will run all my programs, something neither Linux or MAC will do.

I agree with a lot of what Z-man says, though it's extremely irritating that Microsoft changes its licensing for every major release. I do know that having several hats to wear at my job, I don't get the time to learn other operating systems as I would like.

Bruce, just out of curiosity, do you purchase new PCs without the OS, then load 2000?

I generally purchase off-lease stuff that now mostly comes with XP. Of course my systems are generally used as 'dumb terminals' to connect to our Citrix servers, so the client OS doesn't matter too much to me. I'm sure we still have some clients running Windows 95 and a few thin terminals as well. I've toyed with the idea of running Linux workstations, but there's issues of learning the desktop OS and licensing for the terminal clients. I don't think we'd save anything unless we migrated to *nix servers.

Hi, Steve,

To answer your main question: It varies a bit. If I'm getting an upgraded (in terms of hardware) workstation for myself or my wife, I will build them from the ground up, from hand-selected (by yours truly) components.

This may cost a bit more, but it has the effect of giving us the longevity (5 years, bare minimum, sometimes 7 or more) that we look for in our systems.

For things like laptops, I've also been known to buy off-lease equipment. In fact, my current laptop (a Dell Latitude C640) is an off-lease unit, bought on Greed-bay from a fellow in Texas who is a Dell reseller, and who takes in off-lease systems for reconditioning and resale.

On the (very) rare occasions when I do buy pre-built systems, I will usually start with Greed-bay, looking for IBM Intellistations that are just a few years old. They're decently inexpensive, exceedingly well-made, and they run just about anything I throw at them like a champ.

Most of the systems I've bought in this manner already come with a license for Windows 2000 Pro, which is fine by me.

Linux has gotten much more publicity than other open-source Unix-type OS's, but this does not mean it's the best idea for every application. I'm uncomfortable with it simply because its code base is still fairly young, especially compared to the BSD family (which has been around since the 70's). That, and I grew up working on BSD-ish systems, which means I already had a good grasp of the command and system structures.

On XP Activation: It's not the fact that it requires it so much as the fact that you have to actually call the manufacturer for "permission" to run it. In other words, it's the principle and precedent of the thing that bothers me far more than the actual implementation.

If I buy software, I expect to be able to install and use it on whatever system of mine will support it. I do NOT agree with having to beg for permission again every time I change out a hard drive, motherboard, video card, or whatever. That's none of the OS manufacturer's business, and NO OTHER OS MANUFACTURER outside of the Redmond Empire does that.

Keep the peace(es).

Thanks Bruce. We used a SCO server for our accounting system at my last place of employment. I knew enough to be dangerous mostly. I did install a RedHat system some 5+ years ago, but I never really had enough time to play with it.

My home laptop (more like my wife's...) is in the shop and we are using a loaner as per the extended warranty I bought.
This loaner is running Vista and some things are fine, some small trinkets that are novel, but don't really impress me or make tasks easier or faster. In fact many admin functions are buried down and steps are added once you find them.
I don't think it's gonna be as bad as the article at the top, but it doesn't really have any draw for me.
So far any "improvements" seem to be useless at best and often a pain in the rear.

I think Bullcube makes a good point. I don't think Vista will be worth buying out right, but I don't think it will be a bad deal if it comes with a new machine.

Nice Topic,

I am the IT guy at a mortgage company. If I was to upgrade to vista the whole company would go under. Reason being....

We use 2 main programs for our business: Calyx Point and Quick Books

These programs will not currently run on Vista right now and why on earth would I want to wait for vista to support them when our system is up and running perfectly.

For home use I tripple boot 3 OS's and may add win98se as a fourth.

Currently I am tripple booting Windows XP PRO SP2, Windows Vista Ultimate and Ubuntu/Kubuntu. I may add ubuntu/kubuntu is an awesome debian linux distro and I highly recommend it. You can get the distros from : www.ubuntu.com or www.kubuntu.org

I mostly use XP and ubuntu/kubuntu. Vista seems more like a toy to me since I really can't run anything on it yet. Seems like a memory hog more then anything.

Overall my opinion is that Vista is more or less just a market hype. Also there is a rumor of microsoft releasing another OS in 2009 code name: Vienna (lol - XP is still working out bugs)

https://www.pcworld.com/article/id,128888-c,vistalonghorn/article.html

This is funny:

Microsoft is just interested in money

Unlike most mortage companies...

lol

Your funny...

Personally I couldn't do the loan officer thing

I'm just MR. Fix it around there...


Still, I wish Microsoft would focus more time and money on support rather then just the next best looking OS.

I will admit: I enjoy Microsofts products :thumb:

Microsoft did force the industry to be more hardware compatible. As for software, for a desk top I use an ide bay. Build up a harddrive for the diff. apps. you need to run on diff. OS's. works great for lots of diff. things. Older laptops are pretty cheap so I have a couple with diff. OS's it can be a hassel to haul but its less of a hassel then resetting up a usb comm port every time xp decides to reconfigure every thing. My view is never upgrade unless you must.